...

[evile]

So, my mom and X*'s family were friends long before X and I were born. Even though X has made a lot of mistakes and fucked over anyone who ever cared about her, of course her family has stayed in touch with her and with my mom. I'm the only one who took myself out of that loop.

X's stepdad wrote my mom this email:

> [X] called me this afternoon and said she's
> developed advanced ovarian
> cancer. She's meeting her GP and Oncologist tomorrow to
> discuss their findings
> and options. She has also been scheduled for surgery next
> Thursday ( Sept 10)
> and I expect that we'll find out then if the mass has
> metastized (if not
> tomorrow).

I really hated her and wanted her dead.

Now that I'm about to get my wish, apparently, my mom wanted me to know what was going on and tell me I should reconcile. Not as in BFF again but as in "Yom Kippur"...whatever that means.


*background: here's the short version of the X story, and here are the tags relating to or about her in some way.

One of the things I have recently realized is problematic, even pathological, is my tendency to think in terms of all or nothing. The ACOA book I read recently suggests that this black and white thinking is a common trait in adult children of alcoholics. I don't know how to forgive or forget. I don't know how to be OK with someone fucking me over and destroying the childhood of kids I loved...I don't know how to talk to her. As far as I'm concerned, she doesnt' exist anymore. Except when her family or mine reminds me that she does. And then it hurts and makes me sick. So...I don't know how to do this yom kippur thing, whatever it is.

Here we are at the proverbial "wouldn't cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire" moment...now, do I cross the street?

Comments

[maevemacaraab.livejournal.com]

Holy Crapsaur!! She sounds like a doozie. Wow, I'm amazed that child protective services weren't involved?

You know, you have every right not to talk to her, even if she's dying. You know people get chances with those they love and if they fuck up enough, then they lose out. It's the nature of things. No amount of hard-knocks can erase a person's wrong doing.

One thing I'm learning in life is there is a big difference between forgiveness and trust. Just because you forgive someone and move on, doesn't mean that you trust them or have to let them back into your life at all.

Case in point, my sister calls this weekend becauce my mom is in the hospital with a blod clot. I told my sister to tell my mom that I wish her well, but thier death threat back in April was too fresh in my mind to pick up the phone and call her.

I wish you luck. It's no fun trying to protect yourself from someone when close family members don't understand.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I feel bad for her kids and her stepdad. but...ya know, I don't feel bad for her, really. She has abused her body for most of her life. It's unsurprising that her body finally said 'enough'

I believe CPS *was* called in, but X very skillfully manipulated them into blaming her husband for everything, so she got off scott free. I'm sorry, but what intelligent person would believe that someone could live in a house with a man who was buying and selling drugs, selling your kids, and NOT fucking notice something was seriously wrong?@? GR. I just can't think about it...it makes me sick and furious. I have NO way of making peace with this, at all. None. I can't accept it, I can't forgive it...so I just have to NOT THINK about it. It just makes me too sad and hurt and mad.

anyway...CPS screws the pooch on a regular basis here in TX. They are overworked, underpaid, and most of them have all the human caring beaten out of them within the first few years of employment with the State. Most times, they take the road of least paperwork/least work, rather than serving or protecting the children of this state.

[northwall.livejournal.com]

maybe i can shed some light on the Yom Kippur thing...
(disclaimer: not raised Jewish, studied/thought about converting in HS/college)

Each year between the new year (Rosh Hashana) and the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), you're supposed to try and set right stuff that's gone wrong in your life, so God will forgive you and write your name in the book of life (some people take this more literally than others). And because God cannot feel the hurt of your sin and distance, only other people can, what you're really supposed to do is make peace with the people in your life, apologize, make amends...

Now, in your case, it does not sound like you have ANYTHING to apologize or make up for. Your parents and hers probably don't know the whole story, and since you're not Jewish, reconnecting now (either over the New Year or her cancer) does not make a lot of sense. In my current worldview (which i think is relatively similar to yours), you have to take care of yourself SO THAT you can take care of others. And if being around her or thinking about her is toxic to you, let it be. It does not sound like reaching out will do you, her, or her children any good. Don't do it for your mother or for her parents.

It does not sound like you're being spiteful in this. It's ok to hurt and refuse to expose yourself to more hurt. If the Yom Kippur comment/speech bothers you enough to do something, do something for someone you ACTUALLY owe it to.

*hugs* and peace.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Thank you for that. I don't want to be spiteful or hateful.

Just ... done.

sounds like family medling.. you get to sit this one out.

[arthurthedented.livejournal.com]

The ONLY circumstance in which your ever laying eyes on each other again is if she, on her deathbed expresses remorse, and a wish to make things right with you... and even then thats your call as to whether you can accept that.

sounds like instead.. the usual error (well intentioned) is occurring in that folks who know you both would like things mended so it makes life.. like a possible impending funeral.. less awkward for them. oh and possibly some religious and traditional stuff that might add to that.

Really IF *SHE* expresses a desire to make amends before shuffeling off her mortal coil.. that .. might be a burden released for both of you. Otherwise another awkward, frustrating refresher on old pains is probably not something good for anyone.

Re: sounds like family medling.. you get to sit this one out.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

well...she's sent emails and called my phone trying to apologize, make amends, whatever. more than once.

the thing is...historically she's been a liar, a user and a manipulator, and I have no way to know if she really meant it this time, or just needed something from me.

My aunt also brought up a good point--X's husband is a nutball, like possibly seriously dangerous brand of crazy, and my aunt said she would prefer I not be around the husband, regardless of anything else going on.

so...I have at least one family member backing up my 'no contact' decision.

I know there's something wrong with me and I'm not the best person...other people can do this and I can't.

but...that's just the way it is right now. And if she goes to her grave without another word to or from me, well, too bad. (and, hey she may recover. these things are not an automatic death sentence)

Re: sounds like family medling.. you get to sit this one out.

[arthurthedented.livejournal.com]

Umm. sounds like I wouldnt go either for whatever thats worth.

whatever you think is wrong with you (and hey, whos perfect?).. I dont think this is it.

[eigen-zed.livejournal.com]

My first reaction was to say, "what does this have to do with you?" I mean, yes, it's awful that X is having health issues. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And if X called you up and wanted to talk to you, then I think you should hear her out. The question really is, why would you go out of your way to reconnect with X, at great emotional cost to yourself?

A few of answers to that question:
1. You wouldn't.

2. You would, because it might make this person's final days easier to bear. After all, you and your family loved her once, and even if you no longer find her to be someone you like or with whom you wish to associate, you still might want to make her feel better. You could contact her in an indirect way, like sending flowers or something.

3. You could do it for yourself. Now, this one might be a little harder to explain. You're saying that as an ACOA you have a hard time seeing gray. This might be an interesting opportunity for your personal growth, to see if you can let this person into your life just enough to let go of all the pain and hate and disgust. Not for her, but for you. OTOH, you might not be ready for that, and X might not be the right person for this task. But it might be worth thinking about.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Thank you for these thoughts.

I like the flower idea.

[eigen-zed.livejournal.com]

*hugs* you're welcome. It's a tough situation, hon. Know that the people who value you will value you regardless of what decision you ultimately make, and it is YOUR decision.

[made-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

Whoa. I need to keep that flower idea in mind for future reference -- there's someone I wouldn't really want to visit in the hospital if it came to that, but sending flowers would likely be a positive thing.

[eigen-zed.livejournal.com]

I'm smarter than I look. ;)

[made-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know that, darlin'! :)

[smurfbrother.livejournal.com]

"I don't know how to forgive or forget."

The latter is impossible, this might be a good chance to try and practice the former. Can you go to a dying person you used to love and say, "I forgive you and wish you the best"? You might not mean it when you say it, you might not know if you can ever mean it, but it is the right thing to do, and if you say it to yourself enough times, you might come to believe it as well, and it'll be easier next time.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

I know it's the right thing to do.

I just don't think I can do it.

And I am not interested in the flood of obligations and guilt that will follow when or if I open this door again. I was her first child's godmother. At one time that meant I was willing to raise her kid if something ever happened to her. I don't want to be held to that. Or, worse, saddled with her autistic, large, and violent/cruel non-pain-feeling youngest child. I don't want to get stuck with any of the obligations that would come from this person calling me 'friend' again.

I'd like to say there was something more to our friendship but all I remember is being used and taken from.

[smurfbrother.livejournal.com]

If you can't do it, you can't do it, and anyone who would castigate you for it is a wretch.

But you asked for opinions, and I can't help but think you could do yourself and X some good by jumping across that chasm. Becoming friends or incurring obligations doesn't have to / shouldn't enter into it at all.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Becoming friends or incurring obligations doesn't have to / shouldn't enter into it at all.

and I don't really understand how that would work. I feel dumb, but I can't get my head around how to do that.

I liked the sending flowers idea, because it's still no-contact. Probably no closure either, but I don't understand closure much either. My closure is 'it happened, it sucked, it can't be fixed or helped, so I'll never think or speak of it again'...I don't know how to make it OK that someone did something horrible. It's not OK. Them being sorry doesn't make it OK. Them being sorry doesn't mean they won't do it again if they get another chance. Sorry? who cares? She did harm, she killed her children's innocence (and, to a lesser degree, mine), and it can't ever come back. Sorry doesn't fix that.

[smurfbrother.livejournal.com]

I agree wholeheartedly with every single word you wrote.

Forgiveness is so hard, I think, because you acknowledge every single bad thing she did, acknowledge the agony she caused and the effects it still clearly has on you, and you...forgive.

We don't have to forget, accept, or go back for another helping. There's no "making it OK," or any need to do so. You ask, "Sorry? Who cares?"

Hopefully, she does. Hopefully, she does sincerely regret the hurt she's caused and the damage she's done.

Hopefully, you do. Hopefully, you can accept that she acknowledges the grievous harms she's done, and you can start to deny them the power they have over you.

Lord, E, I can't believe you've brought this touchy-feely hippie out of me. I went through a lot of this when my dad died a few years ago, and I think I'm a better person for it.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Thanks for dragging your hippie touchy-feely side out for me to pick its brain... :)

I appreciate it very much.

I know you're right. This is just very hard.

[smurfbrother.livejournal.com]

If it were easy, everyone would do it. :)

Good luck.

J Law says:

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

*sigh* If xtal herself really really wants to reconcile, I think it is up to her to ask you personally in some way (letter? call?) not deploy some complex and indirect means to get you there and expect forgiveness because she is ill. Cancer sucks, but it isn't a get out of jail free card for every crappy thing you ever did to people when you were well. If she wants your sincere forgiveness, she has to ask you for it with equal sincerity. I don't think any of this makes you a cold-hearted bitch.

[made-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

You don't cross the street if it's going to cause you more pain in the end.

You cross the street if it's something you need to do for yourself.

You figure out which of those it is. And, good luck, whatever your decision.

[made-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/momsense/2009/mayjun/fivelanguagesofapology.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12751512/Learn-Five-Languages-of-Apology-for-the-Workplace

Until she's apologized to you in a manner that is acceptable to you, you don't owe her forgiveness for what she's done to you.

If you can forgive her in your heart sometime after she dies, then great -- that will be one less thing bothering you. But you should not be expected to express forgiveness to her until she has sufficiently apologized to you.

I don't think a Yom Kippur sort of thing is possible here unless she acknowledges the wrongs she's done to you. Sin is defined someplace as anything that separates a person from God; a more secular definition might be, sin is anything that separates one person from another. I think that the sins and transgressions were more on her end, and that you should not be made to suffer for standing up against being used.

("Use things, love people; don't love things and use people" is one of the rules of thumb my mom gave me that make great sense. If you were used by someone you loved, the sin is on their end. Does any of that make sense?)