evile: (Default)
 September 11. A terrible day. I remember the shock and confusion, not knowing why it happened or who was behind the attacks. I also remember the amazing spirit of the people. The communities coming together to help and mourn and comfort one another. The outpouring of love from people around the world who felt compassion and empathy, who shared our sorrow and lent a hand.
There are more good people in the world than there are evil ones. We have so much in common with one another.
Then, as today, we did not have leadership that was intelligent, experienced, or capable enough to meet the moment with grace, spirit, and kindness. We have leadership that wants us fearful, angry and divided against one another.
I remember September 11 as a day we stood united with all the good people and all the love and goodwill and caring of the planet focused on the city of New York and the people of the United States, and I want the world we could have had if our leaders had risen to the moment and built something good with all that love. We still can.

The Oligarch, billionaires, robber barons, the wealthy and evil and powerful among us, tell us that Empathy is a Sin, that kindness and compassion are despicable, weakness, errors to be rooted out.

I've heard that shit before--from narcissistic abusers who have no capacity for empathy or kindness or full human emotions. I didn't believe them, and I don't believe it now, coming from the wealthy and powerful rulers of the earth.

Empathy and kindness and compassion for one another will save us and heal us and make a better world for everyone *except* the narcissistic abusers. Terrorists. Evildoers, as Dub the Shrub would say.

 
evile: (declutter)
 Ya know, when you've been in a shitty relationship or have been through a crappy breakup, or whatever...you (Me, I mean) go through a period of analysis; who did what to whom, who did it first, who did it worst, who is the bad guy. You may or may not discover or decide that the person you used to love or care about is personality-disordered in some way. They may or may not actually be personality disordered, that may just be something you need to learn about and go through in order to get to your own peace of mind.

There's a school of thought that declares "if you spot it, you got it," and I think that can be true for a lot of things.

But there is also room for discernment and indeed judgement in life, when you really need to trust that what you have seen and experienced was a true thing. That you did not do anything to invite or ask another person to treat you badly, disregard your needs and feelings, and talk shit about you to other people & try to turn them against you... it's OK to get to the end of that period of introspection and discovery and conclude "I am a good person and I did not deserve to be treated like that,"

You can also go through that period of analysis and see that, yes, you did make mistakes. You were selfish. You were insensitive. You were unkind. You did some smear campaigning and attempted recruitment of flying monkeys yourownself.

I think, in the end, what would be the difference between yourself and the narcissist/abuser is that you are able to recognize what you did wrong, learn from it, and do better next time.

People who are personality disordered just tend to cycle through the same drama over and over and OVER again. The same story with themselves as the blameless victim of other people's mistreatment. I mean, yeah, some of us do have a bad 'picker' and end up with a few user loser scumbags in a row...but after watching the same story play out over the last 30-ish years in one instance, I can pretty much guarantee you that the person yelling about narcississtic abuse and flying monkeys...is the one who tends to be perpetrating narcisssistic abuse and siccing flying monkeys on the latest villain in their 'oh poor me' show.

sad and wierd. Not worth any more of my time or energy.
evile: (clutter)
 
 


by 

The goal is for you to react and look like the crazy, unstable, abusive freak they claim you are.

The denial, gaslighting, and emotional abuse are all CRAZY-MAKING.

REACTIVE ABUSE (self defense ) is a normal response to being abused.

The “narcissist” loves for you to react and will be able to recall the exact date and time that one time you reacted and hit him back in 2012.

They will play the blame game or lie, deny and gaslight you. They stay calm to provoke you into defending yourself and then call you “crazy” for being upset. Now they're the victim.

Holding in all the abuse that wasn’t acknowledged and confronting the “narcissist” about it is a huge mistake that you will learn to regret. Don’t bother, they will fukk you up. You shouldn't have to.

I know most people can’t understand this because they have healthy boundaries and they would have been long gone by now but you’re still begging your abuser to be nice to you and treat you like you are a human being.

Maybe you don’t know what’s going on yet or don’t know what abuse is.
It is not normal for abuse to not be acknowledged. You shouldn’t have to explain. An abuser doesn’t get to tell you how to feel or what’s abusive or not.

Where are your boundaries? You should not have to ask someone who hurts you to apologize or accept responsibility. You shouldn’t have to let it all go to keep the peace.

Where’s the empathy? You are being invalidated, and this is more abuse.

So when you react and get shut down, and the abuse is minimized and denied again with no accountability, you get trapped into arguing about what is normal. This is crazy-making and emotional abuse, and no person should accept this,endure this, or be expected to calmly get over it.

So yes, you may look crazy and/or abusive in these situations and many others with a disordered person wreaking havoc on your life.

How can you even keep it all straight when emotional abuse is every day and you forget what you’re fighting for?

If you were the abusive “narcissist” then wouldn’t the real narcissist/ “so-called victim” be trying to help you?

Is the “narcissist” scared of you and walking on eggshells? Are they reading on Quora about “narcissists” and running to therapists trying to understand and get help to prove they’re not a “narcissist” or crazy?

The abused person doesn’t look like they are in control at all; they look like a friggin hot mess, talking too much and trying to explain it all, self-isolating, and avoiding everyone while trying to understand how to survive this. 
evile: (clutter)
 https://shrink4men.com/2024/04/24/the-narcissistic-womans-relationship-manifesto-part-1/

this is a post from Xitter that when Dr T reposted in her article above, had 1.4 million views, thousands of 'quote' and 'reposts'...uggggh...Whhyyyyyyyyyy?  

 
 
 

Conversation

 
What women don’t openly tell men: She likes “assholes” over “nice guys.” She desires a man she perceives to be a challenge, because she wants to earn your love. She will tell her girlfriend “I hate him” but secretly wants to F*ck him.  The more emotional she is the more she cares.  A man who complains is one of the biggest “ick” factors to a woman.  Don’t complain about women on social media, it’s a huge turn off.   She wants a man who wins, Period.  She doesn’t want to hear about your struggles.  A man who puts her mind at rest so she doesn’t need to worry about things, is a huge turn on.  Women will always have a plan B.  It’s in our DNA.  If the relationship has been troubled for too long, she will begin to “slow release” from him before she ever, actually, walks away.  This is why men think women move on quickly. However, she just implement her plan B, long before she told you goodbye.  If she is attentive to your needs,such as wants to… Cook for you Clean for you Do your laundry Give you endless sex …she is in love with you.  What she wants from you is integrity.  Girls don't want to hear some, long, drawn out, heartfelt, communication from you.  They want a dependable leader.  Set boundaries and then act on your words. Nuff said.  Deep down every girl wants to relinquish control and submit herself to a man who is a competent leader.  If you’re a follower, like her, don’t be surprised when she ghosts you and walks away.
 
 

=========

wow, this is some toxic bullshit. I don't know anything about the person, but apparently they're an influencer of some kind, relationship/lifestyle coach, bla bla.
Seems very creepy...kind of tradwife with some kind of extra 'ick' of some kind. shadowy non consentual BDSM or something? I dunno, the post reads as very 'off' to me. Grammatical / spelling issues aside. What kind of relationship is she describing? Sort of a contempt + lust + greed thing?

Idunno, it's just gross. I have a partner, not a 'leader'...certainly not an 'asshole'. I agree with the 'complainer' stuff....I don't think anyone likes a complainer, and certainly not a person who denigrates or complains about everyone of their desired gender when they're looking for a relationship. I think maybe it is a red, or at least 'hot pink' flag if someone makes blanket statements about 'all men' or 'all women' or "women just want this" or "men just want that," .... we are all people and we don't all want the same things from a partner or a relationship.

Anyway, the post was super creepy and Dr. T makes some good points. I suppose if you want the kind of relationship sMcCool portrays herself as having, you can model her behavior and see what you get. I prefer no assholes, no games, direct communication, and absolutely a partnership rather than a 'follower/leader' dynamic.







 
evile: (clutter)
The original URL seems to be gone. it ays something like "parked free at Godaddy" but I didn't want this wisdom to be lost, so I found it in the wayback machine and cut and pasted it here.  

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If I can’t accept you at your worst, then maybe you should stop being so horrible

 

 

image: http://mattwalshblog.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/untitled-7.png

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I remember the first time I was awarded the “game ball” in my Little League. I don’t recall the details exactly, but I’m pretty sure my stat sheet looked something like this:

Zero RBIs, zero home runs, zero hits, zero stolen bases, zero plays made on the field, seven errors, four innings spent sitting on the bench.

Most of my team probably performed similarly, but I know we put a few runs on the board, so SOMEONE must have done something notable.

Alas, that kid — whoever he was — got jobbed this tragic afternoon. They gave the game ball to me. You can only imagine how I felt.

That is, confused.

We capped off the season with a trophy ceremony in the local middle school auditorium. One by one, they called every team up to receive their participation awards. You played a game for a few weeks and achieved no amount of success at all! Congratulations on your mediocrity, kid! It was a plastic gold-colored figurine of a guy hitting a baseball. Ironic, really, considering I hadn’t actually made contact with a ball all season.

I still have my pity-trophy, it’s right up there on my pity-mantle, next to my pity-game ball and the mandatory Valentine’s cards I only received because elementary school rules required every child to give one to every other child.

When visitors come by, I show it to them and proudly say, “Look at all of the mandatory recognition showered upon me as a matter of routine policy!”

Then my guests will often cringe and weep, and the evening ends early and uncomfortably.

See, I think all of this nonsense — this “everybody is special, everybody gets to have a trophy, everybody gets a card, everybody gets recognition” idiocy — can produce only two possible results, neither desirable. One, it can make perceptive, self-aware children even more embarrassed and insecure. They know that they are undeserving of these accolades, and they’d rather not be patronized.

If a severely impoverished child wore a burlap sack to school, he would be utterly humiliated if his teacher, with all good intentions, decided to award him the honor of “best dressed.” That’s how many kids feel when their mediocrity is put on a pedestal and treated like it’s something exceptional. They aren’t fooled, as much as they’d like to be.

Then there’s category 2. These kids, perhaps not equipped with the same critical thinking capacities as the first type, will eventually buy into the hype. They will look at those trophies and gold stars, unearned and undeserved, and begin to develop an inflated image of themselves. What is born from this is not confidence, but narcissism and arrogance. These are the kids in possession of the much-heralded “self-esteem.” Indeed, they hold themselves in high esteem. Why? Because they are themselves. They are spectacular, beautiful, athletic, and brilliant, all by their very nature. Whatever they do is the best thing anyone has ever done, simply because it was done by them. Whoever comes in contact with them ought to be grateful for the privilege. Success and happiness is what they are due, and the entire universe is in their debt. They are the people who expect the Lord to descend from heaven and hand them a  game ball and a participation trophy every day.

I’m sure you’ve met this type. Maybe you’ve voted for this type. Maybe you work with, or under, this type. Maybe, God help you, they are in your family. Maybe you’ve been in a relationship with them.

In fact, it seems statistically likely that you have been in a relationship with them. The divorce rate speaks for itself. Beyond that, although there aren’t any statistics (as far as I’m aware) for non-married break ups, it appears obvious that we are experiencing a crisis of failed relationships at every level and in every form. People don’t know how to be in relationships anymore, and I think this epidemic can be traced, at least in part, to the delusions of grandeur we instill in our little snowflakes from an early age.

Shielded from failure, insulated from criticism, covered in emotional bubble wrap, our kids are venturing out into the world with little discipline and even less humility. You can see this manifest in many arenas, but I think it’s most pronounced in the way we approach relationships.

Here’s one example. It’s minor, probably insignificant, but it represents something quite serious. I was perusing my Facebook Newsfeed today and I came across a status that said this:

“Yea I’m a b*tch but deal with it. I wont be with anyone who cant accept all of who I am!!!”

This was a grown woman. Apparently college educated. Older than me.

It reminded me of a meme we’ve all seen a thousand times. It has a few variations, but it usually goes something like this:

If you can’t accept me at my worst, then you don’t deserve me at my best.

This is such a popular sentiment that it has its own Facebook fan page with over 150 thousand “likes.”

It shows up all the time on memes and illustrations like this one:

 

image: http://mattwalshblog.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/untitled-5.png?w=300

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Of course, the original quote is from Marilyn Monroe. It’s even more vapid and nauseating when taken in its full context:

“I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best.”

Out of all the profundities ever uttered, what does it say about our society that THIS is the quote we’ve decided to take to heart?

It says that we need to read more books.

Also, it says that we are horrible at relationships.

Yes, it’s true that, in a marriage, we must love our spouses in spite of their flaws. It’s also true that we all have flaws. But it’s ALSO true that only an infantile, spoiled, egotistical brat would ever treat a loved one with “her worst” and expect them to deal with it because her “best” will somehow compensate for it.

Newsflash: It’s not OK to be selfish, impatient, and out of control. These traits, while common, are UNacceptable. They should not be accepted, least of all by the people you claim to love. The onus is on YOU to change your behavior and your attitude, not on them to “handle it.” Are you such a gem that they should thank God for the opportunity to be emotionally abused by you, if only it earns them a chance to bask in the glow of your superiority?

Perhaps that’s how you see it, but I’ve never met anyone quite that charming.

This philosophy is poison, and it stretches beyond one offensive quote from a 20th century Playboy Bunny. Often I read or hear people whine that they ‘just want to find someone who will accept them, no matter what.’ But being “accepted” should not be our relationship goal. Healthy relationships are loving, but also challenging, edifying, and even occasionally painful.

Accept. Definition: to receive with approval or favor, to agree or consent to.

Should our selfishness, impatience, and weakness preclude us from being loved? No. But should these traits be “accepted”? Should they be “received with approval or favor”? Should our loved ones “consent” to them?

No.

Big no.

Enormous, loud, screaming no.

Should we scoff at our husbands or wives or boyfriends or girlfriends and flippantly tell them to “handle it,” as we behave in ways that will hurt and offend them?

No. And if you think that — if you REALLY think that — then you shouldn’t be getting into relationships at all. You aren’t ready.

Further, does our “best” (which probably isn’t as great as we imagine it to be) make up for, or negate, our “worst”?

No. Your worst is your worst. Fix it. Be better. Nobody should have to put up with it. Least of all the people you love.

Love is a transformative force, and if you want to experience it you better be ready to change in every way imaginable. My wife does not “accept me”, and thank God for that. She challenges me. She makes me better. In other words, she loves me.

What kind of a pathetic and dreary goal is that, anyway — just wanting to be “accepted”, tolerated, put up with? That’s not why we’re put on this planet. Life is not about gaining “acceptance.” Life is change. It is not static and stagnant, do you really want your relationships to be?

We don’t emerge into the world as eternally entitled princes and princesses. We come into it as naked, crying, helpless babies. Our job is to grow out of that condition. And that will take a lot of changing and a lot of learning about what parts of us are unsuitable and insufficient and unacceptable. Sadly, some of us are unwilling to endure that process, so we never grow, and in failing to grow we fail to live. It’s a tragedy.

Don’t ask anyone to “accept” the bad parts of you. Instead, strive to improve those parts. Put in the effort. Make yourself worthy of the love they’ve offered you.

Forget what you learned in elementary school. The only “participation trophy” you’re awarded from life is death. That’s the one thing we all get just for showing up. In the meantime, if you want something better, you have to earn it.

That means if you want better relationships, you have to earn them, too.


Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/01/23/if-i-cant-accept-you-at-your-worst-then-maybe-you-should-stop-being-so-horrible/#2xhs1yMTlsA5Rucr.99
evile: (declutter)
[to be entirely fair, I think these things can also manifest in families with generational trauma, mental illness, alcoholism, abuse, etc. I believe that NPD can arise as an organic brain deficiency or as a result of childhood abuse/neglect. ie: I believe it can be a response to generational trauma or a spontaneous birth defect]



By Shahida Arabi
Updated August 6, 2023
 Maria Orlova
 
 
Your life doesn’t stop being traumatic once you turn eighteen. It continues as a cycle of trauma reenactment. You may wonder why you become easily entrapped in toxic relationships with people who resemble your parents or exploitative friendships that seem to reenact your childhood adversity. This is because adult children of narcissists tend to become subconsciously drawn to dangerous people as a result of their upbringing. Their bodies and minds are accustomed to chaos and even biochemically “addicted” to it due to these early traumas. You are still working through ancient programming and beliefs.
 
Your independence is vital for your own safety and well-being. So is your alone time. Being hyper-independent and alone most of the time may seem like a lonesome burden to people who weren’t raised by a toxic parent. But for you, it’s absolute bliss. Being alone means you finally get to choose who gets to be in your life and who has the ability to affect your emotions on a daily basis – a choice you never got to make as a child when you were constantly bombarded with the problems of the adults who were supposed to take care of you. As an adult, you find yourself savoring your alone time as you give your nervous system the time and space it always needed to heal.
 
You were an adult before you ever got to be a child – and now, you sometimes still feel like a child in an adult’s body. You may have grown up being told that you were very “mature” for your age. People often comment on how you seem to have wisdom beyond your years. Yet as an adult you find yourself still feeling like a child at times. That’s because as a kid, you were simultaneously infantilized and parentified. Narcissistic parents demean their children into feeling like they can’t venture out into the world on their own without their help to keep them dependent on them; on the other hand, they also shoulder their children with the burden of being parents to their parents.
 
This parentification trains young children to manage the emotions of their parents while also failing to meet their basic developmental needs. As an adult, you’re a natural caretaker. You “picked up” after the adults in your life, tending to their issues at a young age, ensuring they were taken care of. In adulthood, you may repeat this pattern and be prone to codependency in relationships, becoming overly empathic to toxic people who drain your energy. You grapple with the unmet needs of childhood as you learn to set healthier boundaries and reparent yourself.
 
You have a deep craving for connection – yet it scares the living daylights out of you. Narcissistic parents tend to become enmeshed with their children, treating them like objects and extensions of themselves. As an adult, becoming too “close” to someone frightens you because that means they have the power to harm you and take over your life. You tend to feel “suffocated” in relationships, even if you have a pattern of jumping from one relationship to another.
 
 
 
 
You’re afraid to shine so you dim your light to avoid “discovery.”  Narcissistic parents train you to shrink with their hypercriticism. While most parents want their children to succeed and be happy, narcissistic parents tend to be pathologically envious and lash out at their children even when they’re doing well. As an adult, you fear retaliation for owning your strengths and gifts. You often shortchange yourself and believe you’re unworthy or undeserving even if you’re overqualified. Even when life is going extremely well, you hold a lingering fear of having “too much” success and happiness, having to constantly remind yourself that you are enough in order to battle your early conditioning. Giving yourself permission to enjoy yourself and the positive aspects of your life without developing a hyperfocus on even the most miniscule negative details can feel like a daunting task.
 
 
 
 
You live in a world of extremes when it comes to emotions. There’s very little grey area when an adult child of a narcissist starts their healing journey. They may be overwhelmed and terrified by their intense rage or sadness. As a child, you were usually punished for having emotions at all and emotionally invalidated. You could have a harder time validating and identifying your own emotions as an adult and may have learned to suppress these emotions to cope.
 
You gravitate toward narcissists, and they gravitate towards you. Dangerous people and situations ironically feel more like “home” than safe ones and you find yourself always waiting for the other shoe to drop. You find yourself easily entangled in relationships or friendships with narcissists in adulthood – and paradoxically, this can initially feel “safer” than a healthy relationship which is not in line with your sense of “normal.” You don’t trust what seems “too good to be true” or what’s easily handed to you, because you had to work hard for everything you have now and even had to endure punishment or nitpicking when you achieved amazing things as a child. Instead, you find yourself waiting for the “catch” (even when there is none) when it comes to happy and safe relationships, accomplishments, or situations. Your subconscious mind operates on the philosophy that, “It’s better the devil you know than the one you don’t.” 
 
You “thrive” in fantasy relationships. For adult children of narcissists, the safest relationship is the one that doesn’t actually exist or ones with emotionally unavailable people. That’s because you do not fear getting hurt because you know the relationship can’t truly come into fruition. This can lead to you becoming easily infatuated or developing limerence toward people you know deep down can’t make you happy – but they certainly provide you with the hope of happiness, without all the fuss – at first. While these trysts may seem harmless at first, these relationships still end up harming you because you end up investing in a future with someone you know is ultimately not compatible with you.
 
 
 
 
You’re extremely resourceful – because you had to be. When it comes to confronting life’s obstacles, you’re a talented MacGyver at inventing creative solutions – you can essentially turn anything into gold. That’s because you had to transform all the crises of your childhood into opportunities for survival. This can be an adaptive trauma response that guides you through life’s adversity in adulthood.
 
You have a hard time saying no – and apologize constantly even when it’s unnecessary. Disobeying your narcissistic parents was always met with brutality. As a result, you may have a hard time setting boundaries and turn to people-pleasing or fawning as self-protection.
 
 
 
 
You have more of an addictive personality than most. Early childhood trauma can leave you with a compulsion for relief and distraction. In some cases, it can even make you highly sensation-seeking, reckless, impulsive – always searching for the next adrenaline rush of excitement to counter your emotional numbness. That means you may feel addicted to certain self-sabotaging behaviors, self-harm or even turn to substance use to take you away from the trauma that you’ve experienced.
 
You’re prone to perfectionism and over-achieving. Having narcissistic parents means always trying to keep up with constantly moving goal posts and extraordinarily high expectations. Narcissists can live vicariously through their children, demanding that they fulfill the dreams and goals these parents didn’t (or did – and they must carry on their legacy). Some adult children of narcissists can become overachievers to try to gain the approval of their parents and to meet their expectations of them. Others might be conditioned toward rigid perfectionism because it gives them a source of control and validation they did not have in childhood. So long as you’re “perfect,” you are deemed lovable – at least, that’s what a narcissistic parent taught you to believe.
 
You’re hypervigilant – to everything. At the same time, you’d make a great FBI agent or detective. You may feel like you’re always on alert for what’s around the corner. That’s because your childhood trained you to pick up on subtle signs that chaos was about to ensue – the sound of your father’s footsteps may have clued you in as to when he was about to rage, or the shrill shriek of your sibling may have alerted you to abuse going on in the next room. You are especially adept at reading microexpressions, shifts in tone, gestures, and nonverbal cues. This hyper-attunement to danger can serve as a superpower that helps you identify red flags and toxic people – but it can also be exhausting to be so attentive to everything at all times.
 
You dissociate more often than you’d like. If you have unprocessed trauma, it’s likely that you dissociate more than the average person. That’s because ongoing complex trauma has trained your brain to escape from reality as a survival mechanism. You may also find yourself turning to activities that enhance that dissociation. Whether it’s binge-watching television, losing yourself for days in books, or feeling like you’ve lost time and memories altogether, you feel detached from yourself or your surroundings.
 
You vacillate between oversharing and being terrified of being vulnerable. You fear abandonment yet abandon yourself. Adult children of narcissists often search for a rescuer throughout their life – a savior who will finally make them feel seen and heard. In the early stages of their healing journey, this can make them overshare their traumas in an attempt to find someone who can finally “take care” of them in the way they always needed to be taken care of. At the same time, they fear being vulnerable and become easily gun-shy when relationships or friendships get too close. They might depart preemptively from too much intimacy because they fear abandonment or betrayal – a very valid fear considering all of the abandonment and betrayal they experienced in childhood. Yet they also abandon themselves and deprive themselves of nourishment and self-care.
 
You have a fragmented sense of identity. Trauma creates fragments – creating a split among memories, emotions, thoughts, and sensations. This sense of confusion can erode your sense of self. Being the child of a narcissist means also meant you were never given full reign over your own preferences, opinions, or beliefs. You had to internalize the belief systems, likes, dislikes, and attitudes of your parent and pretend to think the way they do in order to avoid reprimand. You were not given the freedom to be yourself or grow into who you authentically were. As an adult, your journey is about rediscovering who you are organically – not who you were expected to be.
 
You have a need to control your environment. Adult children of narcissists are extremely micromanaged and controlled by their parents. They were never given the agency to make their own decisions freely without a price. As a result, they may fear losing control as adults. They may try to micromanage their relationships or control their circumstances to assuage these fears.
 
You trust very few people. As a child, your privacy was often invaded by the narcissistic parent in ways no child should have to endure. You were likely under constant surveillance. You learned how to lie and hide many aspects of your life to protect yourself from their abuse. Now as an adult, you still keep your secrets close and your circle tight. For you, it’s the only way to “survive” and not risk someone using your personal information against you.
 
You have a hard time asking for help. You rely heavily on self-soothing because you had to be a parent at a young age – to yourself. You essentially raised yourself (and any younger siblings) because one or more of your parents lacked the emotional equipment to do so. This means you had to soothe yourself after witnessing rage attacks, endured the pain of watching how deflated your emotionally abused parent became, and experienced some of the verbal and emotional abuse yourself when you were the target of attack.  As an adult, this means you’re less likely to ask for help even during the worst moments of your life because you learned that you had to do everything yourself.
 
You have an interesting relationship with parenthood. Some adult children of narcissists fast-forward into marriage and parenthood, considered the traditional “milestones” of adulthood because they want to make up for the mistakes of their parents and experience the healthy, functional family they never experienced. Others opt out or delay parenthood altogether because they fear passing down generational trauma or feel like they’ve already done enough “parenting” by taking on adult responsibilities in childhood.
 
When any incident or crisis with your family happens now, it’s triple the trauma because of all the childhood wounding. For most people, any family crisis is itself a trauma all on its own. For adult children of narcissists, it’s double the wounding with triple the power. Any argument, conflict, or incident that occurs now holds within it the power to bring back the memories of the past, essentially “regressing” you back to your childhood fears and stressors – especially if there’s a crisis that demands that there be some kind of family reunion. It not only adds salt to the wound, it creates a whole new psychological injury. Outsiders may wonder why as a family you can’t just “work things out” – but they have no idea the terrors you have survived and the despair involved in having to revisit what you’ve escaped.
 
You’ve always wanted to have a “normal life.” One of your deepest desires was to feel normal and to have a “normal” childhood and life. But because of your upbringing, you may feel separate and different from others, especially those who had supportive parents. It’s worth mentioning that many adult children of narcissists can and do channel their trauma into success and joy and can end up living extraordinary lives – better than any type of “normal” they could have ever dreamed. Yet it’s still worth validating the sacrifices they were forced to make to get there.
 
Contact with toxic family members can re-open even wounds you thought you’d already healed. Speaking of regression, adult children of narcissists who maintain contact with their narcissistic parent can face additional anxiety on their healing journey. That’s because any criticism from the narcissistic parent or witnessing further abuse by the toxic parent toward the victimized parent can cause re-traumatization like no other. These “emotional flashbacks” hold a power beyond their years to make you feel like you’re reliving the worst moments of your life and like you’ll never escape. Low contact or no contact depending on your circumstances are often needed for true healing.
 
 
 
evile: (mask)

yes. There are female narcissists.  You can search Quora using the search term “female narcissist”

Quora
 

and find that many people have written about the peculiar qualities of a woman with narcissistic personality disorder.

There are also female abusers. 

Not all narcissists are physically abusive to their targets. In fact, I would say that many, if not most, female narcissists are especially good at verbal, emotional, and financial abuse, as opposed to using brute force physical violence against their targets.

The wounds received from being verbally, emotionally, spiritually or financially  abused can last much longer and take much longer to uncover and heal, as these types of wounds can end up becoming part of the victim’s reality or self-concept—believing  that you are worthless, unloveable, socially awkward, stupid, ‘going to Hell’ etc. can become so engrained in how you view yourself that you may not even realize these things are lies that were placed in your head by an abuser, rather than true things about yourself.

Not to mention, it is harder to get anyone to believe or support you when you have no physical wounds to show as evidence of being abused. And if you are a ‘big strong man’ who has been abused by a ‘little woman’ then you will really face a lot of difficulties being believed and finding resources and support in your community, sad to say.

The first step is realizing that you are in a relationship with a toxic person, regardless of diagnosis. If someone is not treating you with kindness, you have the right to leave that relationship. It does not have to reach a point of ‘laying hands’— other forms of abuse are just as toxic and damaging, if not more so.

 
 
Types and Signs of Abuse
It has been estimated that roughly two-thirds of those harming a vulnerable adult are family members, most often the victim’s adult child or spouse. Research has shown that in most instances the abuser is financially dependent on the vulnerable adult’s resources and have problems related to alcohol and drugs. Stay alert to the different types of abuse The word abuse covers many different ways someone may harm a vulnerable adult. Physical abuse is intentional bodily injury. Some examples include slapping, pinching, choking, kicking, shoving, or inappropriately using drugs or physical restraints. Signs of physical abuse . Sexual abuse is nonconsensual sexual contact (any unwanted sexual contact). Examples include unwanted touching, rape, sodomy, coerced nudity, sexual explicit photographing. Signs of sexual abuse . Mental mistreatment or emotional abuse is deliberately causing mental or emotional pain. Examples include intimidation, coercion, ridiculing, harassment, treating an adult like a child, isolating an adult from family, friends, or regular activity, use of silence to control behavior, and yelling or swearing which results in mental distress. Signs of emotional abuse . Exploitation occurs when a vulnerable adult or his/her resources or income are illegally or improperly used for another person's profit or gain. Examples include illegally withdrawing money out of another person’s account, forging checks, or stealing things out of the vulnerably adult’s house. Signs of exploitation . Neglect occurs when a person, either through his/her action or inaction, deprives a vulnerable adult of the care necessary to maintain the vulnerable adult’s physical or mental health. Examples include not providing basic items such as food, water, clothing, a safe place to live, medicine, or health care. Signs of neglect . Self-neglect occurs when a vulnerable adult fails to provide adequately for themselves and jeopardizes his/her well-being. Examples include a vulnerable adult living in hazardous, unsafe, or unsanitary living conditions or not having enough food or water. Signs of self-neglect . Abandonment occurs when a vulnerable adult is left without the ability to obtain necessary food, clothing, shelter or health care. Examples include deserting a vulnerable adult in a public place or leaving a vulnerable adult at home without the means of getting basic life necessities. Signs of abandonment . Signs of physical abuse bruises, black eyes, welts, lacerations, and rope marks broken bones open wounds, cuts, punctures, untreated injuries in various stages of healing broken eyeglasses/frames, or any physical signs of being punished or restrained laboratory findings of either an overdose or under dose medications individual's report being hit, slapped, kicked, or mistreated vulnerable adult's sudden change in behavior the caregiver's refusal to allow visitors to see a vulnerable adult alone Signs of sexual abuse bruises around the breasts or genital area unexpla
 


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evile: (deadmoon)
Here's something I haven't seen many people commenting about. Depp admitted and acknowledged a drug and alcohol problem. But Heard was drinking and drugging right along with him, and somehow only HE got mean and irrational while using? Only HE had a substance problem? Her use/abuse of drugs and alcohol didn't contribute to their sick and violent relationship, at all? Come onnnnn, man. Not buying it.

And now folks are saying that Marilyn Manson is going to use the same 'misogynistic' court techniques to win his defamation suit. Well, let's look at the differences: Depp has had multiple relationships, and only one accusation of DV in something like 35 years of being a famous person constantly in the public eye. His accuser had past incidents of being a DV abuser. Manson, on the other hand, has multiple accusations and multiple women who reported Manson's problematic behavior. I just don't see how people can compare these cases, they're apples and oranges.

Can the legal system be misused by abusers to further traumatize their victims? Yes. It can and it HAS--especially in cases of a female abuser and male victim.  And especially when it comes to family courts and parental alienation. The legal system is terrible and flawed. I don't feel that the Depp verdict is a proof of that (though the fact that he is a public figure with enough money to get good lawyers might be),  any more than I feel that AH's behavior invalidated the entire 'me too' movement or proved that all women are gold digging liars.

I guess what this is highlighting for me is that no matter how righteous your initial cause, lowlifes will hang themselves on it like a barnacle and co opt it for their own agenda.

I don't know if anyone remembers the original Tea Party tenets, they made sense and seemed decent. haha.

Mens Rights? yeah. They were looking for the same things I think men get screwed out of in family court--fair divorces, shared custody, reasonable child support, etc.

And now it's coming to the same with 'me too'....bad actors (literally!) attaching themselves and using a movement to advance their own sick goals.

On a micro level, I've seen and heard abusers co-opt the language of self-help, abuse and therapy to justify their abuse and vilify their victims and anyone else who calls them out on their shitty behavior.

So.....maybe humans are just garbage.

And now we have Jan 6 public hearings starting. ughhhhh

hm.

Jun. 2nd, 2022 10:31 am
evile: (deadmoon)

ugggh.

So Johnny Depp won his defamation suit against Amber Heard.

The redpill incels are declaring that 'me too' is over, this just proves women are evil and bla bla bla.

The Guardian UK is declaring the trial as a win for misogyny.

I want to say it's like when someone criticizes Israel for genociding Palestinians and then that person gets called 'anti semitic'....

No, really, I'm not expressing misogyny when I say that Amber Heard was abusive, and did defame her ex husband.

I hate that so many really ugly and stupid people got behind Johnny. More as an excuse to hate on a pretty woman and say misogynistic bullshit out loud than for the merits of the case. Stopped clock and all of that, though. She was obviously lying. She was obviously abusive. Her 'mountain of evidence' was...not all that mountainous.

I don't think Johnny Depp is or was a good person, or a saint, or blameless. I also don't think that anyone in a relationship, man or woman, should be hitting the other person. Or that anyone who hits another person should think that they're OK to do that without getting hit back. I also can't imagine texting a friend that I want to kill my spouse and fuck their corpse. That's extremely ugly and nasty and terrible. I can't imagine saying or thinking that about a person I was in a relationship with!  And I've been in an abusive relationship. So.... yeah.

I have a lot of feelings. I don't think it's really safe to talk about them in FB or with a larger audience because DV and SA are triggering for so many people.

I have a family situation involving a male victim and female abuser. During the many years of their marriage, they have both inflicted physical injuries on one another--it took some time but eventually he started hitting back. I have not observed any verbal abuse from the male person to the female person, but I have directly observed verbal abuse, put-downs, and insults directed from the female person to the male person and I have directly observed at least one occasion of the female person physically abusing an animal. Not a human, but still pretty upsetting to see. I used to agonize and get super angry and depressed about the situation, with a lot of anger at the female person and a lot of sympathy and empathy for the male person. But eventually I burned out on it; you can't care more about a person than a person cares about themselves for decades without burning out. And various incidents and memories of the male person long before meeting the female person eventually got through to me that the male person was never any kind of angel. Turns out they are/were both really rather awful people:  liars, manipulators, unstable, drama addicts...and they found each other, cling together despite bringing out the absolute worst in each other, and keep on engaging in these endless cycles of interpersonal violence, pushing each other's buttons and using their dysfunctional relationship as a chess piece in their interactions with friends and family. They are both getting something out of it, they both feel that they 'need' or 'deserve' the situation, they stay together no matter how violent and crazy things become. They are both awful people.
And sadly I think that's where I finally am with the JD/AH situation. I hope they both get help and therapy and become better people rather than moving on to the next dysfunctional interaction.


So much about this trial was upsetting to watch and listen to.  I believe 100% Johnny Depp was verbally and emotionally abusive.  100% Amber Heard was verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive.   

I think she would have won if she had not told so many crazy lies. 

Sick people. Would not want to be in a relationship with either of them.

Nothing she said or did should invalidate the #metoo movement.

I am glad JD came forward and spoke about being physically beaten by his wife; hopefully that will remove some of the stigma from male DV victims.

But justice is for people who have the money for it, and I doubt this will change the reality of normal folks who are in DV relationships.

And....this was a huge distraction from stuff in the real world that is happening that has a more immediate and awful effect on all of us
.


=========================================== 


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2gEsG-qFBZMmRSzHYXXFjWiIA25gHys1pcsHlu_5UGCR7-gYdLZ42kHCE



The Amber Heard-Johnny Depp trial was an orgy of misogyny

Moira Donegan

The backlash to #Me Too has long been under way. But this feels like a tipping point

‘In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard.’
‘In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard.’ Photograph: Reuters

In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard. “I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead,” Depp wrote. In other texts, he disparaged his wife’s body in luridly misogynist terms. “Mushy pointless dangling overused floppy fish market,” he called her.

The texts became public as part of Depp’s defamation suit against Heard, now at trial in a Virginia court. Ostensibly, Depp is suing over a 2018 article that Heard published in the Washington Post, titled “I spoke up against sexual violence – and faced our culture’s wrath.” In the piece, the actress writes, “Two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse.” The article does not mention Depp, but his lawyers say that the piece was about him – and was defamatory. For those 11 words, Depp is seeking $50m.

Maybe the persistence of this notion that Heard is somehow equally culpable for what happened to her is why people like the New York Times’ Michelle Goldberg have characterized the trial as “the death of Me Too”: it shows how easily a victim can still be blamed and isolated, how easily what happened to her can be taken as a failure of her personal character, rather than as part of a social pattern. Not all women are alike, but feminism was supposed to let us see how we are all similarly vulnerable – both to gendered abuse and to the gendered application of double standards and unjust blame. No victim is perfect. No victim should have to be. After all, if a man cannot be considered abusive towards an imperfect woman, then just how perfect does a woman need to be before it becomes wrong to beat her?

For their part, Depp’s fans seem to not so much deny Depp’s alleged violence against Heard, but to approve of it. “He could have killed you,” says one viral Tiktok supporting Depp, the text superimposed over photos of Heard’s bruised face. “He had every right.” The post has more than 222,200 likes.

The backlash to #Me Too has long been under way. Critics of the movement painted women’s efforts to end sexual violence as excessive and intemperate from the start, claiming #MeToo had “gone too far” before it really got under way at all. And yet the Heard trial does feel like a tipping point in our culture’s response to gender violence. The forces of misogynist reaction are perhaps even stronger now for having been temporarily repressed. Where once women refused, en masse, to keep men’s secrets, or to remain silent about the truth of their own lives, now, a resurgence of sexism, virulent online harassment, and the threat of lawsuits, all aim to compel women back into silence – by force.

In some ways, one could see the defamation suit itself as an extension of Depp’s abuse of Heard, a way to prolong his humiliation and control over her. The only difference is that now, the legal system and the public have been conscripted to take part. This seems to be at least partly how Depp sees it. In 2016, as their marriage broke apart, Depp texted his friend Christian Carino, vowing revenge against Heard. “She is begging for global humiliation,” Depp wrote. “She is going to get it.”

  • Moira Donegan is a Guardian US columnist

AH vs JD

May. 18th, 2022 03:12 pm
evile: (deadmoon)
So, I have gotten a bit sucked in to the Amber and Johnny trial. On one hand, I find this real life trial between two real life human beings being used as entertainment/reality TV to be quite distasteful and unseemly. On the other hand, I do think light being shed on the issue of female abusers and male victims may be an ultimate good.  I don't think most men are going to be able to find a decent judge or a good legal team so Depp's outcome is likely not to be shared by many real life un-famous men. The court system is fairly biased, in my experience, when it comes to heterosexual domestic matters. 

Anyway I've been listening to (literally, ugh!) hours of courtroom testimony, recordings and texts and photos and AH's self-serving word salad of excuses as to why she had to shame, humiliate, gaslight, smear, and physically strike her husband.  One recording where she repeatedly says 'suck my dick' and calls him a pussy and insults his manhood, etc. ends with him saying that he's going to commit to try and be a better husband and wants to work it out.   I really wonder  what was the last straw, what was the bridge too far, what finally made him (or her?) say "This is crazy, it's time to GTFO"...because it seems to me that a lot of the behavior over the short time of their marriage fell into what I'd consider 'deal breaker' territory before it got to the finger-severing and bed-pooping.   

Then again, I know from my own failed relationship that there was a long slow slippery slope to where we finally called it quits, and for me the last straw was not so much the disrespect, cheating, financial nonsense, etc. but seeing the  lack of respect given to a visiting family member.  I'd been neglected, ignored, belittled, and disregarded for years by that point but somehow seeing the same behavior in a different context made me decide it was time to end things.

Anyhoo...here's an article I found interesting.

https://medium.com/the-virago/how-bad-does-it-need-to-get-before-you-leave-5a7e3ce021

How Bad Does It Need to Get Before You Leave?

Trust me, it’s not worth the wait

My voice is my superpower. Founder of The Narcissist Relationship Recovery Program. www.suzannaquintana.com

5.2K Followers

 

Apr 12

5 min read

I used to wish he would hit me instead, believing that would hurt less than his cruel behavior and words.

I often begged him to leave because I didn’t have the strength to do it myself.

The way he ignored me for days, the smirk that appeared on his mouth whenever I was in pain, the black eyes that glared at me without feeling…

Days, months, years passed.

And I stayed.

Because at the time, I didn’t think it was bad enough to leave.

So I waited. Until it was.

Until the Universe answered my call after collapsing in my bedroom closet one afternoon, begging for relief.

Please, send me a sign. Any sign, I wailed.

The Universe, sick and tired of my shit and ignoring all the signs it had already sent my way, responded by hurling a Cat. 5 hurricane…with me in its direct path.

It took blowing up my life as I knew it, eviscerating everything I believed to be true, causing waves of trauma in our children that still ebb and flow to this day, for me to finally leave.

It took uncovering my husband’s double life of grooming and exploiting young immigrant girls, and realizing I’d married a sexual predator, to push me out the door.

Today, as a recovery coach who helps others rebuild their lives after abusive relationships, I’ve noticed my story is a common one. There is a theme for those of us who have been victims of an abusive partner.

We stay.

Until something so big happens, something so horrific and destructive, that we’re pushed to leave, sometimes the decision taken out of our hands.

But as someone who waited until my worst nightmare came true, I’m here to tell you that staying in an abusive relationship and hoping things will only get better is not worth the wait.

Here’s why:

The “love conquers all” belief

That’s a sweet saying, but in the words of Tina Turner, what’s love got to do with it? If someone is hurting you in order to keep control of you, if someone is strengthened by your weakness, if someone expects you to give while all they do is take, that’s not love. That’s abuse.

You don’t want to “give up” on them

Welcome to the world of attachment that abusers — especially narcissists — create to instill guilt and obligation so that you’ll stay no matter what they dish out. Thus, the only one you’re giving up on is yourself.

Staying for the kids

I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping our family together, staying for our kids. Turns out, the one regret I have when I look back is that I didn’t leave sooner. Because of my kids. The fact is children who witness abuse, especially emotional abuse, of a parent often face severe and long-term consequences.

Even if your kids are not being abused firsthand, it’s like secondhand smoke — they’re still inhaling the poison.

You don’t want to break up the family

In an abusive relationship, the family is already broken by an abuser. Leaving is the only way to put it back together.

Waiting for them to change

If you hold your breath, you’ll suffocate. Besides, why would an abuser, particularly a narcissist, change? What they’re doing is working for them and they’re getting something out of it (power, control, supply, etc.) so why would they give that up?

And don’t say “because they love me and they care about me” because if they loved you and cared about you they wouldn’t have been abusive in the first place.

You made vows

The last time I checked, two people make vows when they get married. So if your spouse is the one no longer cherishing and honoring and respecting you, and your vows didn’t include promising to stick it out no matter the cost to your emotional and physical well-being, then consider yourself released from that marital contract through no fault of your own.

They have anger issues and you want to “help” them

My (now ex) husband used to act out angrily toward me and our oldest son. He asked me for help to deal with his anger “issues.” So I bought him books on anger. I researched methods on how to deal with anger. I listened and tried to help him in any way that I could.

The thing is, he never got angry at anyone else. And when he was angry at me, he could become “un-angry” with the flip of a switch if anyone else was around. Not to mention, I wasn’t allowed to be angry. Especially at him. So the issue was never anger to begin with. It’s about control, and the reminder of my lack of it.

Your abusive partner doesn’t have a problem with his anger. He has a problem with your anger. — Lundy Bancroft

You don’t believe you’re worthy of anything better

Do you know why your self-worth is in the toilet? Because you’re in an abusive relationship with someone who has convinced you that you’re not worthy of anything better. Abusers, especially narcissists, are quite adept at conditioning you to feel like shit about yourself. How else are they going to keep you under control? So the longer you stay, the more your self-esteem is going to be battered.

Like death from a thousand cuts.

There are good times too

The one you love isn’t all bad all the time. They have their sweet moments where they’re loving and caring and treating you well. So what if the day before they insulted you (again) or the week before they lied to you (again) or the month before they called you names/smeared you to your friends/got physical with you/pressured you to do something you didn’t want to/cheated on you/humiliated you (again)…it’s not like that all the time, right?

Okay, but why is this acceptable to you for any time at all?

You think you’re the problem

You feel crazy. Too emotional. Too sensitive. You need to get a thicker skin and stop being so dramatic. You look in the mirror and don’t recognize the person staring back. You act in a way that is unrecognizable. You say things you don’t mean. You’ve become a stranger to yourself. This must explain why the one you love treats you like they do. It’s your fault. So if you could just get it together then everything would go back to the way it was…

Stop.

Just stop.

And please hear me when I say:

No one deserves to be abused.

You don’t deserve this. This isn’t the kind of life you want to live because it’s a dead end. When you stay with someone who is abusive, there is no “getting better.” There is no improvement or miraculous change going to happen.

There is only you, staying.

Until it gets worse.

So, why wait?


evile: (deadmoon)
 Have you posted your slobbering adorations lately? Have you made the appropriate sacrifices and tributes? 
===================================================================

Public tribute (i.e., over the top declarations of love) is so third world Dear Leader dictator. On the other hand, there are several similarities between despots and tyrants and a #narcissist or #borderline girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband.
Instead of being machine-gunned to death in the streets of Whereverthefuckistan, you suffer death by a thousand cuts in your 3BR, 2BA homes behind closed doors. Here are 10 warning signs that you’re with a controlling, abusive, #BPD/ #NPD, much like a Dear Leader.
1. *Puts the “dic[k]” in dictator.* Is it their way or the highway? Do you have to capitulate or else? Remember being a dick isn't gendered. You don't have to have one to be one.
2. *If you oppose them or challenge them in anyway, you're in for it.* Do you have a hiding place for when things get really bad? The den? The basement? A panic room? Curling up in the fetal position under your desk?
3. *The revolution will NOT be televised.* Does she pre-empt or try to squash any attempt at self-care or independence you make? Does she undermine you at every turn? Deny reality, the facts and events? Does she threaten you, implicitly or explicitly, not to tell anyone what goes on between the two of you? #Abuse typically happens behind closed doors where others can't see.
4. *No contact with the outside world.* No friends allowed. No family allowed. No third parties with dissenting opinions are tolerated. She effectively cuts you off from friends and family who would come to your aid. In other words, #isolation.
5. *La, la, la, la. I can’t hear you.* Do your protests for basic kindness and fairness fall on deaf ears? Does she conveniently forget your conversations about the hurtful behavior? Or gaslight you about the times you’ve actually expressed your hurt feelings and twist it around on you?
6. *Historical Revisionist and #Gaslighter Extraordinaire.* Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they relentlessly insist upon their distorted view, denying reality. It doesn’t matter if you have concrete evidence that says otherwise.
7. *Gets others to do their dirty work for them.* Every self-respecting tyrant has #henchmen/ henchwomen, #flyingmonkeys, sycophants and #enablers. If you assert objective reality or independence by, e.g., enforcing #boundaries, #divorce, etc., #narcissists and #borderlines enlist others to rally around them and coerce/destroy you.
8. *Brainwashes the young to create loyal followers.* In other words, #ParentalAlienation. [see also: inappropriate relationships with high school and college aged people]
9. *Speaking in absolute, all or nothing terms in which they're the #ProfessionalVictim and you're the villain.* It seems to be a combination of marketed to women "I'm a narcissistic abuse victim" jargon and "inspirational" memes. It’s all emotional #WordSalad based on their fear of losing control and exposure of their pathology. If you examine their “facts,” they fall apart. It's basically #denial, #projection, #gaslighting, #PathologicalLying, #DARVO (deny, attack and reverse victim and offender), and a potpourri of other primitive defense mechanisms.
10. *Trauma Bondage." Meaning you form a toxic attachment to the Dear Leader that creates a special kind of insanity. In that you allow yourself to be harmed (or willingly harm yourself) out of a deeply misguided sense of loyalty to Crazy. A #traumabond is what causes you to protect your abuser to your own detriment. And then you're shocked when they discard you and throw you under the bus when everyone else could see it coming from light years away.
10. *The Dear Leader is infallible.* Enough said. They're right. They're always right. Dear Leader awesomeness deniers (and those who don't adequately ass kiss) will be punished.
evile: (slap)
I didn't know there was a term for this.

Historically, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and just assume they're running their mouths too much because they're nervous, or they're a bit socially inept, or some other excuse. At least I tend to make excuses for them the first time I meet someone and they run off at the mouth like this. When it becomes a constant state every time you see them, then I suspect it's a manifestation of the Narc "Great and Wonderful ME! Show" that is so fucking exhausting.

One of the 'blessings' of age is that I am quicker on the uptake than I was as a younger woman, and I don't tend to tolerate or re-engage with a person once they've bored me to death with a monologue the first time I meet them. Red flag, the end. Life is too short to make excuses for other people's bad behavior. Were they nervous? Are they neuro-untypical in some way? Are they just socially insensitive? Doesn't matter to me, I'm not here to remediate them, teach them, or raise them right.


https://qr.ae/pGBgY5

Rebecca Andrews, Survivor, Student, and Observer
Updated Mar 27, 2020
“What is narcissistic monologuing?”
Narcissistic monologuing (NM) is an opportunistic form of narcissistic abuse that a narcissist utilizes to increase supply levels, when the right situation presents itself or has been contrived by the narcissist. It can be practiced by narcs of any gender.

Narcissistic monologuing requires a narcissist to leverage social norms around human conversation in order to extract narcissistic supply from another human being or beings. Healthy, balanced human beings understand conversation to be like volleying a tennis ball across the tennis court — one person hits the ball across (offers information or asks something), then the other person replies, and back and forth, so it goes. Conversations are built through the back and forth between the two people.

Narcissists, however, have not the least interest in reciprocity, healthy relationships, or balance. What they are after is SUPPLY. A supply-hungry narcissist may start a “conversation” or enter an existing conversation with a person or persons, and quick as a wink, hijack the conversation, converting it into a lecture-style event. Most often the content of the narcissist’s lecture is related to the greatness of the narcissist — he rescued this or that person, caught the biggest fish, makes the most money, has the most expensive car; she rescued this or that or those people, straightened out a confused person, baked more cookies for the poor than any person ever before on the face of the planet. Sometimes a monologue will consist of the narcissist droning on about a subject they believe they are an expert in, in effect acting as if they other people are lucky to have the opportunity to share in the narcissists' superior knowledge or wisdom.

Having been involuntarily converted from a regular human into an audience member is very uncomfortable for average people, and this discomfort is a lot of what seems to provide the fuel to the narcissist; she feeds off of the listening energy of the “audience” as well as off their discomfort. The energy the listener expends validates the narcissist’s false self.

Narcissistic monologuing is a type of narcissistic abuse, since the people who are present for the narcissist’s lecture will generally feel trapped into listening to the narcissist due to their understanding and acceptance of social conventions, along with their empathy for the narcissist’s intensity and naked need for attention. Although the narcissistic monologue is often a crime of opportunity, it can also be contrived by narcissists when they set up a social situation, such as an outing or a party.

The narcissistic monologue will be employed whenever possible, as narcissists are quite lazy and it is easily accomplished in the right situation. The narcissistic monologue will surely drain the energy from anyone with the misfortune to feel trapped to listen to it or stay in the situation. This is one reason why narcissists generally contrive situations wherein they may employ the monologue technique when it is difficult or impossible for the audience to escape, such as at work in a shared office, inside a moving automobile or any mode of transportation, or within the context of a social situation that is very formal or requires the audience members to remain out of social obligation.

The mere thought of enduring a narcissistic monologue will sicken those who have been subject to them repeatedly, and those of us who understand what is happening on the unseen level, the way energy is being suctioned off of us by the parasitic narcissist, will avoid being trapped in any situation with a narcissistic person for any length of time.

 




More:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-narcissistic-monologuing
evile: (deadmoon)
 https://medium.com/the-virago/the-narcissist-who-stole-christmas-30eab4539532

You’re a mean one…

Suzanna Quintana
Dec 21 · 8 min read
Photo by Nathan Dumlao on Unsplash
evile: (mask)

Judging from two family members who got involved with narcissistic abusers, from what I can tell the abusive narcissist has nothing but contempt for their spouse. They need their spouses unpaid manual labor and their paycheck, but they resent and despise[1] their spouse for everything, including for working outside the home to support the household.

 

The narcissist abuser will call and even visit their working spouse’s workplace constantly with complaints, demands, and ‘emergencies’ to the point where the working spouse may quit or get fired.

The abuser refers to their working spouse as a ‘wage slave’ and says things about how they aren’t smart enough to be a successful independent businessperson like the abuser is (their success depends on their working spouse’s paycheck, medical benefits, and unpaid manual labor)

The narcissist abuser enjoys telling embarrassing and humiliating stories about how stupid, useless, incompetent, and bumbling their spouse is. These stories always end with how the abusive narcissist is the one who knows everything and saves the day. The narc pretends these stories are ‘affectionate’ and ‘cute’ and ‘funny’ while their spouse sinks under the weight of every additional humiliating word.

If a friend or family member asks the narc to tell them something positive that their abused spouse has done or said, the narc will give a ‘deer in headlights’ look and will not be able to come up with a single kind or positive thing to say about their spouse.

The narcissist abuser enjoys calling their spouse humiliating names like ‘shmuck’ ‘failure’ ‘jerk’ etc. When a friend or family member of the abused spouse asks the abuser not to call them that horrible name, the abuser gaslights and declares that the humiliating insult is actually an ‘in joke’ between the two spouses. “you think it’s funny, don’t you, honey?” the abuser will demand of the abused spouse. The abused spouse will mumble ‘yes’ and stare at the floor, embarrassed and upset to be in the middle of a conflict between abusive spouse and concerned friend/family, knowing that no matter what they say, the abuser will scream and punish them for hours for their family or friend daring to contradict (Oh, wait, ‘attack’) the narcissist’s abusive name-calling verbal abuse.

The narcissist abuser likes to restrict their spouse’s sexuality while indulging themselves with affairs, online flirting, ‘webcam’ hook-ups, viewing horrifying, violent, humiliating pornography, and other disgusting behavior. The narcissist may say that they are ‘polyamorous’ and ‘bisexual’ and that is why they need to have multiple affairs, but of course since their spouse is heterosexual and monogamous, their spouse is not allowed other relationships. They will also accuse the spouse of affairs if the spouse sees an attractive actor on television or at the movies and admits that they find the actor attractive. If the spouse has an attractive friend, coworker, or even family member, they will accuse the spouse of cheating or wanting to cheat. They may accuse their spouse of cheating if they just have a bad dream where the spouse is cheating. They will then use their made up crazy ‘proof’ of the ‘affair’ to further restrict their spouse’s sexuality—no sex with the abusive narcissist spouse, no looking at attractive people, no masturbation, no nothing.

With most of us, marriage is finding a person we love enough to want to spend the rest of our lives with them. With a narcissist, it seems to be about finding someone they hate enough to want to spend the rest of their lives punishing and torturing, using and extorting. It is a sick and sad situation.

Footnotes

[1] 
 
hostile dependency – Dr. Gerald Stein 

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evile: (mask)
How in the world do I know if I’m dealing with a narcissist or not? I mean he has some of the traits but not all of them, how many does he have to have to qualify to be a narcissist?



Narcissism is a psychological condition. It can only be diagnosed by a licensed professional. Feel free to do an internet search for DSM criteria[1] for Narcissism, or do an internet search for ‘Am I being abused[2] ’ or “Am I in an abusive relationship[3] ’ and see what rings true for you.

 

Keep in mind that unless you are a psychological professional in a client-patient relationship with this person, you are NOT in a position to make a diagnosis.

And, honestly, what do you 'win' if you can check off all the traits for the person to "qualify to be a narcissist'? It's not like there's a prize you get for ticking all the boxes, unless you consider abuse to be a prize.

I totally understand the desire to place a label on a person whose behavior is out of bounds of normal humanity, to try and figure out what went wrong or why this person is being so crazy and awful.

But, at the end of the day, it is up to you to decide what behavior you will and will not allow or tolerate. If the person is disrespectful, unpleasant, unkind, or being around them just generally makes you feel drained, unhappy and bad about yourself, it is time to disengage from that person. You don’t need a label or a diagnosis. If a relationship is not working for you, if a person is not behaving kindly toward you, you are free to end that relationship.

And, contrary to the ‘legal presentation’ some folks seem to demand from others to ‘prove’ who is right, who is wrong, who is at fault, who is to blame, and who deserves punishment, there is no ‘judge and jury’ in a personal relationship between two people. You don’t have to come up with a list of ‘good reasons’ to feel as you feel, or to do what you feel you need to do in order to be happy. Go. Fly. Be free of this person.

Footnotes




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evile: (mask)
You don’t need a label for it; if someone is treating you in a way that makes you feel unhappy, unsafe, or abused, then you know enough to do something about it.

If you bring up your concerns about the way you are being treated and the person continues to mistreat you or you continue to feel unhappy and unsafe in the relationship, then you know enough to leave.

If you don’t even feel that it is safe to express your concerns and share your feelings, then you know it’s time to exit the relationship.

If you feel safe expressing your unmet needs and your feelings of unhappiness with the relationship, and the other person listens, understands, and makes changes to their behavior, then it is likely the person is not a narcissist and the relationship may improve if you both keep working on it—communication and changes in behavior must be consistent, respectful, and fair.

And, if, for whatever reason, you choose to remain in a relationship that is making you feel bad, then you may need some professional help in finding out why you prefer to define yourself with victimhood/martyrdom rather than wanting a good relationship of partners and equals.


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evile: (mask)

NPDs see everything and everyone as a potential tool or a potential threat.

Given these choices, it’s best to be seen as a threat. That means you are seen as intelligent, strong, well-connected, well-thought-of by your peers, coworkers, clients, etc. and you don’t put up with nonsense. You have good boundaries and you aren’t afraid to allow consequences to those who do wrong.

Narcissists have a very keen perception of people; they are quick to identify weaknesses and vulnerabilities. They are also very quick to identify people who will not be easy victims and steer away from those people. One of the most ‘interesting’ family holidays I ever experienced was when two family members had brought their abusive NPD SO’s to the gathering. The two abusers instinctively avoided one another the whole time; they staked out different areas of the home and performed their separate “Great And Wonderful ME!” shows to their separate audiences. It was truly enlightening. There was no clash, there was not even an acknowledgement of one another, they just established separate territories and did their separate thing, “I I , me me me, bla bla bla”.

If you don’t already have a finely-tuned BS detector that will enable you to identify and avoid problematic people, I encourage you to practice your powers of discernment until you can quickly do this as well. Not to become problematic yourself, but to protect yourself from predators. No drama, no confrontation (these feed the narcissist), just a quiet moment of discernment and moving yourself away from the mess. 


=======================
evile: (mask)
If you tell narcissists about all their behavior: gaslighting, manipulating, projecting, playing victim, etc., what will they do?



 One of the most ‘fun’ tools in the narcissist’s toolbox is a neat trick called DARVO

 

Deny

Attack

Reverse Victim and Offender

Example:

“I am not gaslighting you! You are gaslighting ME! YOU are the narcissist! YOU are the abuser! YOU are the one playing mind-games!”

*runs away crying, tells all their followers and flying monkeys about what a mean, terrible, abusive, manipulative jerk YOU are*

The more intelligent, well-read, and well-informed the narcissist is, the better they are able to DARVO. When you hand a narcissist a self-help article or a book about NPD, they are going to use that information to add new spicy self-help and pop psychology buzz-words to the word-salad they dish out to abuse humiliate, smear, and devalue you with.

Congratulations, you handed your enemy a loaded weapon and they are going to do their best to destroy you with it.

If you must confront a narcissist*, don’t use buzzwords or psychological terminology. Don’t use self-help language. Just report the behavior as you see it, describe how it makes you feel and what your response to the behavior may be, and define your boundaries regarding the behavior. And then, enforce the boundary. Make sure the narcissist sees consequences. Every. Time.

Example:

“You have been screaming at me for 15 minutes. It makes me angry and sad when you scream at me. I am going to leave now. If you scream at me again, I will leave again,”

*I don’t actually suggest you confront a narcissist. They don’t care about your feelings and they don’t value the relationship. They are here to get whatever they can out of you and as soon as you cease to be useful, they will discard you.

BUT! If you have to interact, keep it simple, define the behavior you find intolerable, state the boundary you will have around that behavior, and then keep that boundary.

Finally, please take whatever steps necessary to remove the narcissist from your life. Go no contact, move away, quit the job, whatever it takes. Your peace of mind and future happiness are worth these steps.

Footnotes


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evile: (mask)








I agree with the answers I’ve already seen: Narcs either don’t like animals at all, or they choose animals that are easily controlled, animals that are cute (exotic, interesting, unique are also possibilities), and they do not take care of them properly.

A narcissistic abuser of my long acquaintance chooses prey animals exclusively, exotic/interesting/cute ones. The narc also chooses quantity over quality and doesn’t seem to recognize it as odd. At one point, I had two cats, a dog, and a hedgehog, and the narc ‘only’ had two horses. So the narc informed me quite calmly and in a normal conversational tone that they needed to get more horses so that they’d have more pets than me. Never mind that all 4 of my animals put together were smaller, cheaper and easier to maintain, than even one horse. The quantity of pets, and specifically the need to have more pets than me was the only thing that mattered to the narc.

The narc takes these animals into public places with little to no regard for the animals’ health, safety, or well being. For example, one of the animals is a species that is found in the tropics. The narc will take the animal out in frigid winter weather to a restaurant where they’ll be sent out to dine on the patio due to restaurant or  health authority rules regarding animals, and the animal will stand there shivering in the cold while the narc shows it off and makes it do tricks and basically behaves like an attention-seeking ass while the animal catches pneumonia. These animals have delicate health and require special diets and a regular schedule, including being able to sleep in a quiet place as soon as the sun goes down. The narc has no regard for the animal’s well being, they feed it french fries and fried chicken and other human-food ‘treats’ which over time make it sick. The narc will keep the animal out way past sunset and then punish the animal harshly if it begins to act out due to being exhausted and miserable, including throwing it harshly onto the ground, even if the floor surface is hard concrete.

And, of course, anyone daring to speak against the abusive behavior will be attacked by the narcissist, who is a self-proclaimed ‘expert’ regarding that animal, and since YOU don’t own one of these expensive, delicate, high-maintenance creatures, obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about when you say it should not be thrown at the concrete floor full-force.

I have seen similar behavior among other suspected narcissists—people at ‘goth’ clubs with live snakes or ferrets….terrified animals who are frightened by crowds of people, whose tender hearing is being damaged by loud music, and then the owner gets upset if the animal acts out in any way. I really hate to see that. It’s so obvious that the owner isn’t doing anything for the benefit of their pet, just owning something ‘cool’ that they want to show off to make themselves look ‘cool’ too. It’s really gross to treat a living, feeling creature as a ‘prop’ for your ‘interesting lifestyle’. But that’s narcs for ya!

The narcissist abuser of my acquaintance also has a number of horses that are not well cared-for (cracked and chipped hooves, bad teeth, dirty and unbrushed manes and coats, either too skinny or too fat, out of condition, etc.)

The narc will haul these animals into city parks that are not designated as horseback riding areas in order to show them off and be ‘interesting’ to people. Bonus points for getting into conflict with local law enforcement so that the narc can play Lawyer and demand to see the specific statute, rule, or law forbidding horseback riding in that area, and ‘where is that posted’ and bla bla bla. The narc will not bring any sort of food or water for the animals, and will allow pretty much anyone who shows interest to ride the animals around—untrained, inexperienced riders who will kick them hard them to make them go, yank on their heads to try and ‘steer’ them, etc.

The animals are already frightened and sweaty when they arrive at the park sometimes, due to the narc being a horrible driver and taking the animals out during times of day when it’s already too hot [1] and they shouldn’t be riding, so it’s just really painful and upsetting for anyone who knows anything about horses to have to see.

Unfortunately, the narc chooses to surround themselves with people who have no idea, and nobody at the urban places these animals are dragged around to show off knows anything about horses, either. Sometimes, the horses will be painted with tempera paints and have a unicorn horn put on them. The narc really wants/needs attention and really wants/needs to be seen as a magickal horse-whisperer. And, of course, if you are graciously ‘allowed’ to ride one of these poor dirty sad beasts, the narc will behave as if you owe them a giant favor for the rest of your life.

Likewise, if you know anything about horses and dare to offer criticism of the way the animals are treated, run all day without food or water, hoof condition, dirty tangled manes, etc. etc. then you will be attacked and belittled, because YOU aren’t the expert, the narcissist is the expert, and you don’t own any horses (or 24 horses like the narc does!) so how could you possibly know anything about them? You are just a jealous idiot for criticizing!

 

I also agree with the other posts that the narc does not and will not care properly for their pets. It’s an unfortunate fact that many adult humans will stay in a relationship with an abuser in order to protect pets from the abuser. So, if the animals receive care at all, it’s from a family member or partner who feels afraid of what would happen if they weren’t there to take care of the pets, and who feels obligated to stay and tolerate abuse for the well-being of the animals.

Which brings me to a final purpose to the narc’s accumulation of pets: like children, they can be used as hostages and/or bargaining chips against the other adult(s), family, or household members in the narcissist’s life. Just as they use the animals to get attention or sympathy from strangers out in the world, they use the animals’ daily needs as a chain to keep their slaves from leaving.

So, to recap:

  1. the pet must be cute, exotic, or interesting so that the narc can show it off and use it to get attention.
  2. the narc actually doesn’t give a crap about the animal’s health or well-being except as an inconvenience when the animal gets sick or behaves badly due to being neglected/abused.
  3. the pet must be low maintenance, or there must be other people in the narc’s life to provide care, because the narc certainly isn’t going to clean poopy cages or take them to vet appointments or spend any time at all doing anything that is good for the animal that doesn’t benefit the narc FIRST and MORE.
  4. the pet must allow the narc to present a facade of being special, unique, or an expert in that type of animal.
  5. the pet must allow the narc to present a fake image of being an animal lover, animal rescuer, Expert Breeder, or some other kind of Great Philantropist
  6. the pet gives the narc leverage to keep family or partners in line and under control—if you leave, the animal will die without your care. Or, if you leave, the narcissist will punish you by killing the animal outright. Or the narc’s human targets will stay in order to absorb physical abuse that would otherwise be directed against the pets (children).

Footnotes

 =======================
 
evile: (mask)

If you are an adult, no one has control over you but you. Narcissists like to play mind games and they are control freaks, but ultimately it will be your choice as to whether to stay and play these games, or leave them and go to live your own life.

Think of it as sitting down to a game of tea party with a bratty 5 year old child; the child spanks the teddy for spilling tea, the child tells you to put your napkin on your head, the child then wants to spank you for spilling (fake, invisible, non existent) tea or yell at you for eating your (fake, invisible, non existent) cookie the wrong way.

If you want to keep playing ‘tea party’ with the brat and allow the child to spank and yell at you for not following the rules of their game (they will keep changing the rules, don’t forget about that!), that’s on you. You are a grownup. You can stand up and say “No, we don’t spank in this house, and I don’t want to play with you if you are going to behave that way,”

Yes, adult narcissists have worse tricks and traps for you; they may try and control your finances, your vehicle, your communication with others, etc. They may lie, trick, and gas-light you into believing that there is no-one and nothing for you once you walk out their door. But you always have the choice to leave the brat tea party whenever you decide that you have had enough nonsense.

There is no such thing as one adult having ‘total control’ over another adult. The choices you make may not be easy, and if you are with an abuser there is a significant threat of injury, harm or even death if you leave…but you do have choices. The narcissist is just very good at making you believe you have no choice but to comply with their sick world view and obey them in all things. There are always choices. 

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