evile: boo!
SkyeDS: hola! :) what doin?
evile: drinkin' beer. abusing body to obliterate emotional pain.
Same ol'. How are you?
SkyeDS: wasting time doing nothing p roductive, by myself. Emotional
pain? :(
evile: Just lost my oldest friend. Well...gave her up, I guess is a
better way to say it. On one hand, I feel like I"m being stiff necked
and self righteous and dogmatic...but on the other hand I feel like
she threw me away first.
SkyeDS: wtf???
evile: X asked me to help her lie to her husband. I said "if the
lie is something bad that will be hurtful when he finds out, I dont'
want to know"...and she told me anyway. which put me in the position
of either ratting her out to hubby OR helping her lie.
SkyeDS: I thought she had already gotten caught with the musician...
SkyeDS: that being hearsay of course...
evile: she did. And now she is going 'crazy' because M won't leave
her alone, follows her around, won't let her go anywhere or do
anything. ...she wanted 'me time' and wanted me to tell anyone who
asked that she was with me.
SkyeDS: well surprise surprise surprise
evile: I know I am a big time Taurus, and I know I have issues with
holding people to a too-high standard. But is it wrong for me to
say "I will not abide lying and cheating and I will not help you do
it"
SkyeDS: hell no
evile: I feel shitty. I have been crying on and off for 2 days
because I have lost my oldest bestest friend. But I CANT 'love the
sinner and hate the sin' in this case, esp. when she's drawing me
into the sin and making me look guiltyk too...damaging my
realtionship with her hubby and her kids. :(
evile: And also lying to me about not-lying. you don't know somebody
yoru whole life and NOT know when they're lying.
SkyeDS: I suppose it's a matter of labels
evile: labels? how so?
SkyeDS: but what you could do, is tell her, I won't lie for you.
When you decide to give up this course of behavior, I miss you, come
back, k?
SkyeDS: <has heard Sineater do that before>
SkyeDS: as opposed to giving up or throwing away (what I meant by
labels)
evile: It is going to take a LOT for her to get M's trust back.
And a lot for her to get mine back...but I don't see her even wanting
to do that. She just wants to play more games and tell more lies and
do whatever she wants and not get in trouble for it. If she was sorry
for trying to drag me into her mess, I'd forgive her instantly. But
she's not.
SkyeDS: <nods> well, if there is forgiveness waiting, let her know.
If on the other hand there is a statute of limitations on the
forgiveness, well, that's your perogative, and she brought it on
herself...
SkyeDS: I personally am accused of being too hardnosed, but there are
those who will tell you, there are times when I give chances most
people wouldn't.
evile: You don't know someone as long as we've known each other
without a giant well of forgiveness and love always waiting. But
she's just on this very destructive path right now and I can't
involve myself. No matter what I do or say to M at this point, I
look just as guilty as she does.
SkyeDS: you shouldn't. no way, no how.
evile: It just really hurts to lose 30 years worth of trust in an
afternoon. ...at least I went skating before I went on the body-
negative behavior binge.
SkyeDS: I am by myself, I could come over, somehow I don't imagine
that you want my company, but I thought I would offer
evile: Nah. As soon as I sober enough not to get bedspins, I'm going
to bed. Thanks very much for the offer. I really appreciate it.
SkyeDS: you are also always welcome here, but I figured, you're
drinkin, and hurtin, I should come there.
evile: I am definitely not good to drive at this point...I just need
to drink water and pee and go to bed after a while.
SkyeDS: if given time, she continues this way, at the cost of your
friendship...then I am sadly disappointed in her. More than before.
evile: *shrug* Nobody can live up to my ideals of them. My fault for
expecting so much out of people.
SkyeDS: David said to me, no one is rich enough to throw away friends
SkyeDS: I will do a lot for my friends, but not what she asked of you.
evile: I always thought friendship was a 'no matter what' kind of
thing...but when its all said and done I have to live with myself and
look myself in the eye...and I can't do that if I'm lying and hurting
someone on purpose.
SkyeDS: way I see it, you didn't tell her you never wanted to be
friends again, you said, I can't do this sorry. She made her choice.
SkyeDS: no matter what my personal opinion/feelings about her are,
surely she is not so unintelligent as to give you up after 30 years.
evile: I also told her I didn't want to spend time with her this
weekend. I was supoosed to be taking her to great escape weekend for
her bday, but I was so disgusted and disappointed in her I just
couldn't face the idea of spending 2.5 days in her company. After I
asked her not to tell me her secret & she told me anyway, and hten
lied to me about it, I told her to make other weekend plans and I'd
find someone else.
evile: So that is me rejecting her, too.
SkyeDS: no, that is you being honest.
evile: I still feel like the ba dguy. Good news is that Rio will
probably be joining me instead.
SkyeDS: got knocked off
evile: stupid internet. Our cable modem was out all day today at
home. Sweetie was PISSED!
evile: Every time he called Roadrunner, they had a different story.
What a mess.
SkyeDS: nods, been there done that, used to be RR was like that every
time it rained or was windy just about, Sineater did many rounds with them
evile: I hope Tom got to finish his freelance gig, anyway...
SkyeDS: lol...lot of ex Dell staff at RR now...
evile: Ah, well. I should probably try to sleep.
SkyeDS: <hugs> it will get better...sleep well
evile: Sorry to dump so much emotional garbage on you...you totally
dont' deserve fallout from such.
SkyeDS: you did no such thing, no worries
evile: whether or not i approve of your choices in life, at least you
don't lie to and cheat on your spouse.
SkyeDS: I worry about what will happen to her children...but nothing
I can do I know
evile: I'm beginning to see that the kind of honesty is pretty rare
in life...esp. among people it should be the highest priority for.
SkyeDS: honesty is painful.
evile: lies hurt more when you figure out you've been lied to.
SkyeDS: exactly.
evile: I mean, it's great if you never get caught, I guess....but who
NEVER gets caught? I'ts impossible.
SkyeDS: she's lucky M stayed in the first place, regardless of how
uncomfortable the situation is now, it would have been worse if he'd
left, and worse yet if he'd taken the children...he could do that in
TX you know...
evile: esp when you are lying to people who are closest, who know you
best. Some folks may be able to put on the blinders and not see loved
ones lying...but I just can't.
SkyeDS: I have a small handful of friends who are more like family to
me than my own family. And I would never ask any of them to lie for
me. They might do it, they might not, I never intend to find out.
evile: I don't know what's going to happen...either he is going to
decide that he loves her enough to try and trust her again or he is
going to decide that she's not trustworthy, therefore not loveable,
and give up. He can't keep staying at home and following her around
and stuff.
SkyeDS: staying home from work? not good to risk job in this economy
evile: X says he's turned down 8 job offers because he didn't want
to be gone from the house that long. They are really having a hard
time. He was supposed to be in Dallas until Wed. on some job
training/leads, and ended up freaking out and coming home last night.
SkyeDS: 8? omg Sineater and I should be so lucky :(
SkyeDS: and Sweetie
evile: But...as mean and rotten as it may sound....I just have to
say "here is the bed. You made it. Lie down"...you marry a man who
gets all pissy and fighting-mad when you go to a club and someone
just wants to DANCE with you, an then expect him not to go completely
unglued when ou FUCK someone???
SkyeDS: the not so amusing irony is that she probably thinks that
cheating and lying is preferable to open and honest polyamory.
SkyeDS: promising monogamyis fine, as long as you intend to keep the
promise. If you can't, why promise?
evile: M would never go for anything like that....he is just not
wired for it. And...X I don't think is really wired for monogamy.
She likes to flirt, she likes attention. She enjoys it when M gets
all pissy and fighty for her.(whether she admits it or not.)...they
have issues. They need to work on them. I need to just stay away
until something gets better and more honest between them
SkyeDS: yes. and staying away is not completely leaving. big
difference.
evile: I don't get the impression that she will ever want me back. I
just feel like it's really really over for us.
SkyeDS: only if she's less intelligent than I gave her credit for.
evile: Well, how can me saying "I don't approve of your actions and I
don't want to spend the weekend with you" be seen as anything but
total betrayal, rejection...whatever?...I have shut her out.
SkyeDS: I see it as honest. Total betrayal is "I never want to see
you again, ever"
SkyeDS: actually that would be total rejection. total betrayal would
be agreeing to lie for her and then turncoating and telling M
anyway.
evile: If she's going to keep on being how she is right now...I don't
ever want to see her or speak to her again.
evile: I know I am not as close with M as I am with her, but...I
love him and care about him, too. I dont' want to hurt him, but she's
put me in a position where anything that happens will hurt him & make
it look like I'm 'in' on her lies.
SkyeDS: you aren't turning your back on her, but a set of behaviors.
She chooses her path by choosing her behaviors.
evile: yup. And I'm in a total no-win because I know she was planning
on using me as an alibi to go get 'me time' at a 'friends' house who
is 'out of town'. Even if that doesn't happen...I know about it. Even
playing dumb will make me look 'in' on it.
SkyeDS: I'm positive she'll wise up eventually.
evile: I hope so. We've been thru some shit storms in the
past...nothing this major, but just as emotional, I suppose.
SkyeDS: nothing to do but wait, and that hurts
evile: Yup. I guess the important thing is to not beat up on myself,
physically or emotionally, and spend some good time with friends who
aren't fucking up right now
SkyeDS: please don't beat yourself up over it, you did the only thing
you could have done, and have been True to yourself.
evile: gets pretty lonely in the ivory tower of stiffnecked dogmatic
self righteous perfectionism.
SkyeDS: nobody's ever accused me of any of those things, and I don't
think you're being those things either.
SkyeDS: well...nobody's said it to my face anyway, that I remember...
evile: i hope not...but I just really wonder sometimes...I try really
hard to NOT be the typical taurus holding people up to impossible
standards and then reviling them for not being perfect. I know that's
a fault of mine. I fight it constantly. So thanks for the reality
check :)
SkyeDS: well, since your standards and mine agree in this instance,
they can hardly be impossible.
evile: maybe just really really RARE. :P
SkyeDS: rarities, pariahs and outcasts = the great minds, always
SkyeDS: they said Edison was retarded
evile: *sigh*
SkyeDS: Lincoln, Galileo, Columbus, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, all
considered crazy
evile: so...some centuries after my death, people will go "oh, she
wasn't so bad after all"...very comforting :)
SkyeDS: well, what meant was, sometimes being a minority of one is
better than being a bipedal chimp sheeple in the majority, when the
majority is wrong.
evile: yeah...but you spend a lot of time second guessing yourself
sometimes.
SkyeDS: yes.
evile: great. I now have email from M. Which is either him trying
to get me to rat on X, OR X having sicced him on me. yay.
SkyeDS: what does it say?
evile: "please call when you get a chance. It is important but can
wait till tomorrow if you are already in bed"
SkyeDS: think you can get good sleep without calling now?
SkyeDS: I mean, it's likely to be unpleasant and last no telling how
long and it's 11 pm already
evile: I ain't callin. That is a total no win situation.
evile: I am not calling tonight. I am not calling tomorrow. I may
email the m both in a week or so.
SkyeDS: do what you have to, for the sake of your own health and
wellbeing
evile: Either M's on a fishing expedition to catch X in a lie,
catch me in a lie, etc. OR he has been told by X what an evil
horrible nasty bitch I am and wants to get his licks in, too. I am
not up for either option.
SkyeDS: no one in their right mind would subject themselves to that
evile: It's a total no-win. Either I lie for her, which she wanted me
to do and I cannot do. Or I play dumb, which is just as bad as flat
out lying but slightly easier on my conscience...or I sit there and
let him tell me what a rotten friend I am. And I already feel like a
rotten friend, so I don't need his help on that score.
SkyeDS: very lucid thinking.
evile: Sometimes you just have to run away. Discretion is the better
part of valor and all that...
SkyeDS: only way to win some games is not to play them at all. you
have the right to maintain your own health and happiness as long as
you do not deliberately set out to hurt someone in the process.
evile: yup.
evile: Anyway...I should REALLLLLY be getting to bed.
SkyeDS: <hugs> sweet dreams, peaceful sleep
evile: Thanks again for the good advice/reality check.
*hugs*
SkyeDS: :) nice to be good for something on rare occasion
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