(no subject)
Aug. 9th, 2012 07:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
evilehttp://captainawkward.com/2012/08/07/322-323-my-friend-group-has-a-case-of-the-creepy-dude-how-do-we-clear-that-up/
This blog entry has a LOT of good points. a LOT.
I am not trying to dismiss those points by trying to create a distinction between "how we deal with predators as a formal entity with elected leadership and bylaws" and "how we deal with predators when they are friends of friends in informal group settings,"
So let me try again to compare these apples and oranges:
1) You’re at a convention. You’re at work. You’re at an SCA or Amtgard or Civil War Re-Enactors' event. You’re camping at the renaissance festival. You’re attending a church ‘shut in’. You’re at the comic book store. Someone harasses you. Someone touches you without your permission. Someone says vulgar or threatening things to or about you. Someone assaults you. There are people who are there to help. There is a boss, a store owner board of directors, chairperson, ‘autocrat’, king/queen, event security. There are policies and procedures for everyone involved to follow and utilize to address the incident.
2) You have a group of friends. A friend of a friend harasses you. A friend of a friend touches you without your permission. A friend of a friend makes verbal threats against your person, life, or livelihood. A friend of a friend assaults you. At that point, you have police and you have your word against theirs, and you have a choice about how far you want or need to go in order to make yourself feel safe.
As a friend of many strange and diverse people, I am NEVER going to take the word of another person about who I should or should not be friends with. I am NEVER going to listen to one stranger tell me another stranger is toxic and evil and follow that person's directive to "WARN ALL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT ______!!!" Because, seriously, I don't want to live in a world where one person can say "Bramblekite is toxic and evil, avoid her," and have everyone that they say that to BELIEVE them and ACT on it without thinking or questioning or finding out for themselves. And I am NEVER going to entrust my health, well being, or safety to anyone but ME, either. I'm glad of laws and law enforcement. I'm glad for formal groups with formal leadership. But the buck stops right here, with me. And I'm glad of it.
Personal aside, tangent. I have never been sexually assaulted by anyone in any of my friends or hobby groups. But I have friends whose friends have posted online and said in RL that they think I 'need killin’, that they could or should ‘choke a bitch’ (me), that I need a ‘boot to the head’. I have friends whose friend or friends have contacted my employer to lodge complaints about me and try and have me fired. I have heard “So and so was just venting. S/hes a coward, nothing will REALLY happen. Oh, can’t you take a joke? Those are just figures of speech.” I have been told that these colorful expressions of speech against my life, livelihood, and person are “not real threats” and I shouldn’t take so and so seriously.
There is NO way, legally or socially, or any other recourse I have to make our mutual friends stop being friends with that person or stop inviting that person to their parties or make that person stop showing up to public gatherings.
When dealing with someone who has been toxic and abusive to you in the personal sphere, you can tell those closest to you, who are most likely to hear you out and not assume you’re just gossiping, trash talking, or creating drama.
You can avoid that person at parties and gatherings. Or you can just stop showing up. (Which usually tends to make you look like the guilty party in whatever exchange. See Trollspotting)
But is “looking bad” an adequate tradeoff for feeling safe and not having to see the person who ‘joked’ or ‘vented’ or ‘just a figure of speech’-ed about how they wanted to KILL YOU?
Sometimes I feel that yes it is, and sometimes I am angry and sad that I miss out on parties and friends because I don’t want to be around someone who has stated that s/he WANTS ME DEAD.
This isn’t a problem for the group of friends to solve. It's between me and the person or persons. I neither expect nor require my friends to stand up for me. Time will show what’s what and who’s who. In the meantime, I keep myself safe, and spend time with friends I trust and *not* their friends, the charming individuals who have oh-so-HILARIOUSLY threatened my life, person, or livelihood.
If that makes me a stupid drama queen coward, so what. The people who label me that aren’t really my friends and I shouldn’t waste time on what they think, anyway.
This blog entry has a LOT of good points. a LOT.
I am not trying to dismiss those points by trying to create a distinction between "how we deal with predators as a formal entity with elected leadership and bylaws" and "how we deal with predators when they are friends of friends in informal group settings,"
So let me try again to compare these apples and oranges:
1) You’re at a convention. You’re at work. You’re at an SCA or Amtgard or Civil War Re-Enactors' event. You’re camping at the renaissance festival. You’re attending a church ‘shut in’. You’re at the comic book store. Someone harasses you. Someone touches you without your permission. Someone says vulgar or threatening things to or about you. Someone assaults you. There are people who are there to help. There is a boss, a store owner board of directors, chairperson, ‘autocrat’, king/queen, event security. There are policies and procedures for everyone involved to follow and utilize to address the incident.
2) You have a group of friends. A friend of a friend harasses you. A friend of a friend touches you without your permission. A friend of a friend makes verbal threats against your person, life, or livelihood. A friend of a friend assaults you. At that point, you have police and you have your word against theirs, and you have a choice about how far you want or need to go in order to make yourself feel safe.
As a friend of many strange and diverse people, I am NEVER going to take the word of another person about who I should or should not be friends with. I am NEVER going to listen to one stranger tell me another stranger is toxic and evil and follow that person's directive to "WARN ALL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT ______!!!" Because, seriously, I don't want to live in a world where one person can say "Bramblekite is toxic and evil, avoid her," and have everyone that they say that to BELIEVE them and ACT on it without thinking or questioning or finding out for themselves. And I am NEVER going to entrust my health, well being, or safety to anyone but ME, either. I'm glad of laws and law enforcement. I'm glad for formal groups with formal leadership. But the buck stops right here, with me. And I'm glad of it.
Personal aside, tangent. I have never been sexually assaulted by anyone in any of my friends or hobby groups. But I have friends whose friends have posted online and said in RL that they think I 'need killin’, that they could or should ‘choke a bitch’ (me), that I need a ‘boot to the head’. I have friends whose friend or friends have contacted my employer to lodge complaints about me and try and have me fired. I have heard “So and so was just venting. S/hes a coward, nothing will REALLY happen. Oh, can’t you take a joke? Those are just figures of speech.” I have been told that these colorful expressions of speech against my life, livelihood, and person are “not real threats” and I shouldn’t take so and so seriously.
There is NO way, legally or socially, or any other recourse I have to make our mutual friends stop being friends with that person or stop inviting that person to their parties or make that person stop showing up to public gatherings.
When dealing with someone who has been toxic and abusive to you in the personal sphere, you can tell those closest to you, who are most likely to hear you out and not assume you’re just gossiping, trash talking, or creating drama.
You can avoid that person at parties and gatherings. Or you can just stop showing up. (Which usually tends to make you look like the guilty party in whatever exchange. See Trollspotting)
But is “looking bad” an adequate tradeoff for feeling safe and not having to see the person who ‘joked’ or ‘vented’ or ‘just a figure of speech’-ed about how they wanted to KILL YOU?
Sometimes I feel that yes it is, and sometimes I am angry and sad that I miss out on parties and friends because I don’t want to be around someone who has stated that s/he WANTS ME DEAD.
This isn’t a problem for the group of friends to solve. It's between me and the person or persons. I neither expect nor require my friends to stand up for me. Time will show what’s what and who’s who. In the meantime, I keep myself safe, and spend time with friends I trust and *not* their friends, the charming individuals who have oh-so-HILARIOUSLY threatened my life, person, or livelihood.
If that makes me a stupid drama queen coward, so what. The people who label me that aren’t really my friends and I shouldn’t waste time on what they think, anyway.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-08-10 01:08 pm (UTC)Your presence makes it so that I can't guarantee the safety of my household? Goodbye.