Oct. 19th, 2021

evile: (mask)
How in the world do I know if I’m dealing with a narcissist or not? I mean he has some of the traits but not all of them, how many does he have to have to qualify to be a narcissist?



Narcissism is a psychological condition. It can only be diagnosed by a licensed professional. Feel free to do an internet search for DSM criteria[1] for Narcissism, or do an internet search for ‘Am I being abused[2] ’ or “Am I in an abusive relationship[3] ’ and see what rings true for you.

 

Keep in mind that unless you are a psychological professional in a client-patient relationship with this person, you are NOT in a position to make a diagnosis.

And, honestly, what do you 'win' if you can check off all the traits for the person to "qualify to be a narcissist'? It's not like there's a prize you get for ticking all the boxes, unless you consider abuse to be a prize.

I totally understand the desire to place a label on a person whose behavior is out of bounds of normal humanity, to try and figure out what went wrong or why this person is being so crazy and awful.

But, at the end of the day, it is up to you to decide what behavior you will and will not allow or tolerate. If the person is disrespectful, unpleasant, unkind, or being around them just generally makes you feel drained, unhappy and bad about yourself, it is time to disengage from that person. You don’t need a label or a diagnosis. If a relationship is not working for you, if a person is not behaving kindly toward you, you are free to end that relationship.

And, contrary to the ‘legal presentation’ some folks seem to demand from others to ‘prove’ who is right, who is wrong, who is at fault, who is to blame, and who deserves punishment, there is no ‘judge and jury’ in a personal relationship between two people. You don’t have to come up with a list of ‘good reasons’ to feel as you feel, or to do what you feel you need to do in order to be happy. Go. Fly. Be free of this person.

Footnotes




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evile: (mask)
Are Eckancar cult members mostly narcissists? Do you know an "Ekc priest" who is very selfish and a womaniser who has hurt many woman and cares less about anyone's feelings except himself?
 


I don’t know anything about Eckankar specifically, but it does seem that there is some correlation between cult leadership behavior, abusive religious leaders in all faiths, and the behavior of a narcissist domestic abuser. Note: cult LEADER. Not cult MEMBER. Members are likely to be victims or flying monkeys in service to a leader with NPD.


The BITE
[1] model of authoritarian control maps almost directly to a list of narcissistic abuse behaviors[2] The only difference seems to be one of scale. A narcissist will generally only have a spouse and perhaps a few other family members to torture, the cult leader is a bit more organized and structured and can set up an entire sick system to use and abuse large groups of people.

 

The narcissist, cult leader, or abusive priest/priestess will start by idealizing their target— you are special, you are chosen, you have amazing qualities that are unique and remarkable.

Then they start to isolate you. Your chosen group of friends is unworthy, your family is untrustworthy, if you want to advance in your studies of the religion (or whatever), then you really need to give more of your time, effort, and yourself to the church (ie: the toxic leader) Everything and everyone else in your life is an unwelcome distraction from you becoming the greatness that the narcissist/abuser/cult leader can see in you.

Once you are free of those pesky distractions of other people and their reality-checks, the cult leader/narcissist/abuser goes to work on your self-esteem. They dictate your reality. Nitpick your appearance. Things they formerly admired about you now become flaws to be eradicated, prayed away, etc. Anything you say that disagrees with the ‘leader’ will get you punished, ostracized, silent treatment, yelled & screamed at for hours, etc. They will keep their targets wound up and ground down, depriving them of food, sleep, and time to themselves until the target/victim/cult member accepts the cult leader/narcissist/abuser’s version of reality and no longer trusts their own mind, perceptions, or abilities.

Meanwhile the narc/cult leader/abuser is out farming for new supply —going online to flirt, trolling dating sites, dragging their perfect looking, perfectly behaving (OR ELSE!) harem/followers/targets out in public to get a lot of attention and find more. They create a false front of happy family, fulfilled life, perfect peace and contentment that draws more people in to become cult members, victims, flying monkeys, etc.

When looking to join a faith community, look for an inclusive community that welcomes families and individuals from all walks of life, all colors, all income levels, all ages. Cult leaders often have a ‘type’ that they recruit (all young, all male, etc.)

Look for a community that has healthy systems in place to deal with disagreements and predators, both within its clergy and within its membership.

Don’t trust any faith organization that says it has no bad apples and has never had to deal with such a thing—bad people find their way into every group there is. Every group that exists MUST have rules, policies, and procedures to address such things in a fair and transparent manner.

Look for faith communities that do community outreach. These members are not locked away in worship of the Great Leader all day long, they are partnering with homeless shelters, they are distributing food to neighbors, they are doing school-supply drives with the local school district.

And, finally, when looking for a faith community, speak to ex-community members. Seek them out on purpose and ask why they left. If there is an aura of guilt, shame, or they are‘not allowed to talk about it’ then the organization that they left may be a cult.

Footnotes


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evile: (mask)
How old were you when you fell for your narcissist mate? We feel naive and gullible but I was only 18, just an inexperienced kid. She saw that I was useful and successful so she pounced.




I think you are definitely on to something there. My first serious relationship didn’t happen until I was 20–21, but I was sexually inexperienced and emotionally clueless at that age. The guy was a user, a cheater, and a thief. I didn’t have much, but I had a steady job and a place to live, which must have seemed like heaven to a perpetually-unemployed couch surfer bum.

Again, as you say “I was useful and successful so [the narc] pounced” I am really lucky that my circumstances forced me to move just as he was getting comfortable sponging off me.

I was distracted from relationships for a few years while I got my college career squared away, and then I found another ‘winner’ at age 25. That one, unfortunately, lasted about 12 years. But I grew up, realized that I deserved to be loved and appreciated and not just used, and did what I needed to do to be free and choose better relationships going forward. It was expensive and terrible, there were some legal issues, but it was completely 100% worth it!

I wish that, along with education about our bodies, sex and STDs, we also received education about healthy and unhealthy relationships in school growing up. It would really save a lot of us a lot of heartache, time, and energy.

I know that many folks would want all of these things to be taught to children in the home, by their parents or families, but as we see, many families are dysfunctional and there is no model of a healthy non-abusive adult relationship to observe growing up.

My parents were divorced and then married to other spouses a number of times as I was growing up; eventually there was a sane and healthy parental relationship for role-modeling, but that was long after my formative years in which I observed and internalized a lot of unhealthy behavior, mostly ending in having no healthy adult male role-models to observe. This created an anxious/avoidant attachment style which I re-created for myself more than once before finally doing some hard work on myself and making healthier choices.

I have a sibling who was stalked, courted, and groomed by their abusive narcissist as a freshman in college; the narc saw them on campus & fell in lust at first sight. The NPD stalked them enough to find out what clubs and organizations my sibling was in, and started attending those meetings, after doing enough research to pretend to know more than my sib did about this-that-and-the other. The NPDs knowledge of The Great Mysteries combined with lots of lovebombing[1] caused my sibling to marry young. A few more accidents and traumas, a good bit of emotional[2] , financial[3] , and physical abuse[4] , and my sibling is seemingly trapped for life.

 

Meanwhile, the abuser has gone on to find and have affairs with other college-freshman aged people (and younger). As you say, ‘inexperienced kids’ who are vulnerable to an adult flattering them, making inappropriate sexual comments, love-bombing, giving extravagant gifts, putting them in the middle of lots of exciting drama, etc.

When they are young, most people don’t really even know who they are, let alone have solidified life goals and life experience such that they should be choosing a partner for life. (I did say *most*—there are exceptions to every rule, some folks are very mature, emotionally aware, and have their goals for life set at a young age. That’s OK, too, but it’s rare, in my experience. And groomers/abusers will often flatter a target by telling them that they are 'mature' for their age, so in my opinion, it's a red flag to be  described that way if you are younger than the person courting you.

So, yeah, I think our first romances are likely to be modeled on behavior we’ve seen in movies, on TV, or read about in books, if we don't have good family role models. We are likely to be dramatic, jealous, manipulative, and generally immature in our first love relationships. We are likely to believe that love is supposed to have a lot of drama, it’s supposed to hurt or make us feel anxious, it’s supposed to keep us up all night worrying and crying, fussing, and fighting, and finally lead to fantastic sex. And if we are with a narc, this is the way ‘love’ will always be, since they don’t mature and tend to thrive on conflict and chaos.

With age, experience, maturity, and a good sense of self worth, self esteem and self knowledge, the kinds of crazy behavior and mistreatment we used to tolerate, or even expect from others will no longer seem attractive. We will want a safe partner, clear communication, reasonable discussions, and mutual respect and affection. We don’t want to take on impossible quests, sacrifice our health, happiness, and security, or beat ourselves to death in order to ‘prove our love’ to a person with impossible and ever-shifting standards & demands.

With maturity and self-knowledge, we learn that drama, jealousy, and insecurity are exhausting. We don’t really want to be around people we don’t trust with our hearts. We want to be open and vulnerable and authentic. We want give and take, not just give, give, give, while the other person only takes, takes, takes. We learn to discern the difference between ‘drama’ and ‘passion’ and we come to prefer the depth and longevity of passion over the passing storms of drama.

Footnotes



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