1759No Kidding! drama

 

27 Nov. 8:58 am

 

 

I posted this:

From: "evilE"
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:20 pm
Subject: If you don't succeed, Breed!

I just have to share this with y'all:

I just had a major Epiphany!

Having babies is the ultimate admission of failure.

You get to a point in life where you realize you're never going to be
Harrison Ford, Britney Spears, Cher, Madonna, Bill Gates, President
of the US, or whatever. You realize you will never be as talented,
beautiful, thin, popular, powerful, rich, or famous as you wanted to
be.

So you spawn and pass off all the pressure to succeed on to another
generation and settle into obese, flatulent, mature mediocrity. And
then you paint all your faded, failed ambitions with the martyred
brush of "I wanted to write a novel, but there just wasn't time after
Mistayke was born" and "Oh, I wanted to go to art school, but then
Junior came along and now he's going to be the artist in the family,"
or whatever.

Kinda makes you realize exactly what's going on in the heads of all
those sicko stage moms we saw on "American Idol Junior", doesn't it?

Yes I've been drinking.

But...in vino veritas & allathat.

XO!

=E

=======
Got this in response:

From: Jim S
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: [austinnokidding] If you don't succeed, Breed!

 

On Nov 25, 2003, at 8:20 PM, evilE wrote:

> I just have to share this with y'all:
>
> I just had a major Epiphany!
>
> Having babies is the ultimate admission of failure.


Normally I let your anti-kid diatribes slide right past. A lot of the
time, you're dead-on with your complaints, and I agree 110%.

This is not one of those times.

So everybody knows now ... I'm the divorced dad of three beautiful
children.


I based my personal decision to reproduce on a number of things.

First, I'm reasonably attractive, articulate, and intelligent. I'll
let others judge my attractiveness, but I'll boast that I have no
hesitation about calling a dumb mutherfucker a dumb mutherfucker to
their face. Sometimes that turns out to be a stupid thing to do, but
since I'm a former member of Mensa with a history of scores on
standardized tests averaging me around 150 IQ, you can call me as dumb
as you want. Just be careful when you hold up your own yardstick,
because you might not measure up.

Next, I do have some interest in prolonging my family lineage. Since I
happened to be the most suitable breeder among my siblings, it turned
out to be my task to procreate. My ex-wife and I spent our
children-to-be's inheritance on fertility treatments to have 'em. You
don't want to hear about it. Trust me on this. Regardless, our kids
are a lot smarter than her sister's only kid, even though he'll make a
better football player. Or goalpost.

Finally, I've always felt that eugenics was a good concept in theory,
and I've felt that limited uncontrolled experimentation might be in
order. As it stands with the experiment now, we have three cute kids
who are so fucking intelligent that they promise to follow in my
footsteps, and if they do, they will demonize every teacher they
encounter in public school. As far as attractiveness and
articulativeness, the two older kids are posed to break every heart
and every rule they want, and get away with it every time. The
youngest will just punch your fucking lights out, and then take a
photograph.

Hell starts in September.

Now here's where your part comes in.

If you choose to whack yourself now, you need not suffer from what my
kids will do in your lifetime. Nor will you suffer from what other
people's kids will do. However -- if you, like most people, choose not
to take a header off the 360 bridge, here's what will happen. OTHER
people will continue to breed and to produce ugly, inarticulate,
stupid children who will grow up to steal cars, abuse drugs, and
sexually assault sheep. Or commit other misdemeanors great and small.
(cf: Texas congressmen)

On the other hand, MY kids will grow up to join the elite class of
people who set examples for other peoples' kids; who arrest other
peoples' kids when they forge money or hijack airliners; who formulate
policy that governs generations of other peoples' kids; who write the
great books, paint the great pictures, and orchestrate the great
symphonies that will define how generations of other peoples' kids
perceive our society -- as a species, and not just as a culture.

It's goddamned hard, shitty work making a future for society. It takes
a few dedicated people with superlative brains and dedication, and
little or no self-concern for personal indulgence. Without these few
of us, the rest of you can expect to live in a life of Wal-Mart for
eternity.

You have your right to chose not to breed. I respect that. You have a
unconditional right to fault those parents who are incapable of
raising their kids up right -- as a parent myself, I hate those
worthless slackers even more than you do, believe it or not.

But don't tar the few parents whose kids WILL make a difference with
the same brush you use for the Epsilon-Minus breeders whose kids will
impose a lifelong burden on whatever social system will survive.

Jim

PS -- Want to know what we tell our kids when they see other kids
misbehaving in a store, and our kids ask why those brats are acting
badly? We tell them, "Honey, those kids act badly because their
parents don't love them." OUR kids have been dragged home and grounded
enough times to act right. And to know the score.

I would hope that if you were ever in such a position as my ex- and
me,
you'd love your own children enough to teach them wrong from right,
and
how to behave in public.

=======
My reply on group:

From: "evilE" 
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:11 am
Subject: Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!

1. No kidding! is a group for people who don't have kids. What are
you doing here?

2. I own this group, son, so you don't want to be starting s**t with
me.

savvy?
=========
Jim's reply, just as full of shit as his original, but sent via email
rather than posted to the group:


From: "Jim S
Subject: Re: [austinnokidding] Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:54:28 -0600
To: "evilE"




An off-list reply.




On Nov 26, 2003, at 8:11 AM, evilE wrote:

> 1. No kidding! is a group for people who don't have kids. What are
> you doing here?

Take a look at the original "No Kidding" national charter. It
discourages discussion of kids and promotes adult discourse and
friendship outside of interaction with children. It doesn't promote
age-based hatred and bigotry. It also doesn't exclude parents.

Just children.

Would it surprise you to know that most parents in custody of their
kids need a break FROM their spawn even more than childless folks
(that
would be this group) do? Would it surprise you that some parents ARE
able to benefit from hearing from slightly prejudiced outsiders to
parenthood (that would be childless people like you), and CAN modify
their childrens' behavior to be more suitable for our society?

Would it surprise you to hear that every "No Kidding" interaction
I've
had, I've taken away at least one thing that helped make me a better
parent?

And I've done it the whole time without broadcasting the fact that
indeed I do have children. Only Janet and Eric know the whole deal.


> 2. I own this group, son, so you don't want to be starting s**t with
> me.
>

You don't own ME.

Hmm, "son." What does that make me think of?

Spawn?

I think you need a puppy.

I may or may not post a conciliatory reply on the group if (1) you
haven't removed my first reply, (2) you haven't put me on moderated
posting, and/or (3) you haven't deleted me. And put away your
yardstick. It looks like there may be an inch missing off the end.

=====
My response:


Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:26:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "evilE
Subject: Re: [austinnokidding] Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!
To: "Jim S




--- Jim S wrote:
> An off-list reply.
(snippy)
> And I've done it the whole time without broadcasting
> the fact that
> indeed I do have children. Only Janet and Eric know
> the whole deal.

Personally, I think you just want to start your life
over with a cool Childfree woman.

(snip)
>
> Hmm, "son." What does that make me think of?
>
> Spawn?
>
> I think you need a puppy.

I think you need to see "Pirates of the Caribbean". I
was channeling Captain Jack Sparrow, thanks very much.

> I may or may not post a conciliatory reply on the
> group if (1) you
> haven't removed my first reply, (2) you haven't put
> me on moderated
> posting, and/or (3) you haven't deleted me. And put
> away your
> yardstick. It looks like there may be an inch
> missing off the end.
>

You are a coward for not posting this reply on the
group. And I am busy with Thanksgiving just now, so
you've got a few days to cringe and shudder while I
think up an appropriate way to deal with you.

Thanks for playing! Bye now!

=E
==========
Another CF! group member's reply, in group:

From: "equiraptor"
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:13 am
Subject: Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!

One thought - All generalizations are false.

The original post was a generalization. This means there are cases
where there may be an exception to the rule. Jim, it's possible you're
an exception, but we're not the group to judge.

I like the idea that having kids is a way to pass the "need to
succeed" to someone else. I don't know why I do, but I do. Maybe
because I feel a great deal of pressure from my mother to be
"successful." Maybe because I just like the idea of people having kids
because they think they've failed. I dunno. Whatever the case may be,
it's still a theory.

========
my reply:

From: "evilE"
Date: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:17 am
Subject: Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!

Actually, I was posting in 'hyperbole' which is a form of extreme
exaggeration in order to make a point.

I can't help it if I hit a nerve.

And got "Bingo" in the process.

=E
=========

Mark's email to me:

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:03:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mark 
Subject: Re: [austinnokidding] Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!


--- evilE 
> 1. No kidding! is a group for people who don't have kids. What are
> you doing here?

A misunderstanding that needs to be corrected... by Jim leaving. I'm
already talking with Janet and the other organizers about this.

> 2. I own this group, son, so you don't want to be starting s**t
>with me.

You have my support, evilE.

-Mark

=====
My reply:

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "evilE
Subject: Re: [austinnokidding] Re: If you don't succeed, Breed!
To: Mark

It wasn't the snappiest reply, I should not post before I have had
coffee.

I could have been a whole lot cleverer and had more fun with my
breeder-dissing...

But thanks for getting my back.

XO!

=E

========
Posted in LiveJournal & replies

evile ( bramblekite) wrote in childfree,
@ 2003-11-26 08:07:00

Current mood: amused

It's good to be the queen

I own the Austin No Kidding! Yahoo group, and posted my "Breeding is
an admission of failure" epiphany.

Got a snootful of self-righteous garbage from a member of the group
who happens to be....*dum ta dum!* a DIVORCED FATHER OF THREE.

Who happens, I suppose, to prefer the company of childfree women.
Hmm, wonder why?

ANYWAY...I laid the smackdown BUT GOOD on his sorry ass. May just go
ahead and ban him now, but I am itching for a good breederbashing, so
I may let him stick around and see what sorry garbage he spews next.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/austinnokidding/

Gee, think I hit a nerve?

farrah
2003-11-26 06:54
What an absolute crock of shit! What the fuck is he rambling about in
the beginning of his letter? How attractive he is? Ha, as if it's
suddenly going to make people perk up and listen to him.

I find it funny how this guy goes on and on about how smart he is,
and yet he's a father of three who joined a childfree mailing list.

His entire letter is nothing but a load of bull. I'm sorry, but this
guy sounds like an absolute prick, and it's sad to know that people
like him are breeding.

ragabashtule
2003-11-26 07:28
What about for those of us who aren't members of the group? It seems
kind of silly just to join the list so we can read a few messages,
then leave. Is there any way you could just post the text here?
*joins and leaves*
-- Sarah

ragabashtule
2003-11-26 07:39
*eyeroll*
2. I own this group, son, so you don't want to be starting s**t with
me.
God, not one of these arguments. No, really. Whatever happened to
dealing with these jackasses with maturity? (even if they don't
deserve it; it still looks better when you give them a polite
smackdown since they have nothing to really come back at you with
when you're being "nice.") This gives more fodder to the fire of the
misguided belief that "all childfree people are immature and act like
kids, because they're not mature enough to have kids."

Given this guy is a total prick, but you just know he's going to come
back at you for making that comment -- unless you're actually looking
to start a fight there, which judging by this post ("I am itching for
a good breederbashing..."), you are.

Please, just be the bigger person and ban him. Your reason for doing
so would be "you have three kids. Therefore you do not belong on a
childfree listserv."
-- Sarah

donnaidh_sidhe
2003-11-26 08:29
Oh, no! You own a group! If I piss you off, you might BAN ME
and I'll have to go to one of the OTHER THREE DOZEN SIMILAR GROUPS
around!

donnaidh_sidhe
2003-11-26 08:30
Ahem. Sorry. I've had that argument used on me before, and it
really doesn't impress me that much. :/


You're right
bramblekite
2003-11-27 06:40
It wasn't as clever and entertaining as I thought it was, I
shouldn't be online before I've had coffee.

The happy thought from all of this is that one of the "Big 3" Austin
NK! organizers here is peeved enough at all this guy's breeder bingo-
isms that DDO3 may be excluded from further Austin NK real life
activities.

I'm sorry, but as a childfree woman who has DELIBERATELY CHOSEN not
to have offspring, I am offended as hell by the idea of some spawner
of 3 trying to insinuate himself, and by extention, the 3
fucktrophies, into *my* happy CF life. Or if not MY life, the life of
one of my CF sisters.

There are WORLDS of difference between dating a man, dating a
divorced man, and dating a divorced FATHER OF THREE. You will NEVER
have his total focus, his full attention, or, to get down to
mercenary terms, his full financial support, if you decide to merge
your life with his. FTS! I (and the cool CF women of Austin No
Kidding!) deserve a WHOLE man, and not just the pathetic remnants
some babymomma left once she had got her use out of
him.



danicia
2003-11-26 09:24
I'm lurking just so I can watch your brilliant mind at work. :)

BTW..what the fuck is up with this statement?

Want to know what we tell our kids when they see other kids
misbehaving in a store, and our kids ask why those
brats are acting badly? We tell them, "Honey, those kids act badly
because their parents don't love them."


the_missy
2003-11-26 09:32
Aww, I was hoping for a much better smackdown.

That guy is one tremendous asshat. I don't even know where to begin
with my complaints about his post. I really liked what he wrote about
how "it turned out to be my task to procreate." What, was someone in
the family holding a gun to his attractive and intelligent head?

But thank the Gods ... "MY kids will grow up to join the elite class
of people who set examples for other peoples' kids." At least we know
for sure, thanks to this guy's assessment, that his kids will indeed
be the next generation of lawyers, doctors and rocket scientists.

I also love it that he's a former Mensa member. Strange thing, I'M a
former Mensa member. And I seem to have the level of intelligence to
not hang around where I don't belong. I'm smart enough to not post at
the parenting boards and telling them how wrong they are. ARGH!


you're right
bramblekite
2003-11-27 06:43
My response was utterly lame.

And now he's taken it to email, so unless I really stoop to bottom-
feeder level and post his private email to the group, it's done.

*sigh*

I hate breeders.

And all of his arguments, aside from giving me "bingo" on my breeder
bingo card, basically proved my point:

"I am a loser ex mensa member who hasn't done anything with my life
other than fuck up a marriage and waste a bunch of money on IVF to
spawn some kids, who now HAVE to grow up to validate my life by being
doctors, lawyers, and cops."

========
Which spawned this tangential post in NK! Group
From: "evilE"
Date: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:48 am
Subject: A thought on Divorced Parents joining No Kidding!

This is my personal opinion, not the official policy of NK, Okay?

As a childfree woman who has DELIBERATELY CHOSEN not to have
offspring, I am offended as hell by the idea of some spawner of 3
trying to insinuate himself, and by extention, the 3 fucktrophies,
into *my* happy CF life. Or if not MY life, the life of one of my CF
sisters.

I can certainly see *why* a divorced parent would seek members of the
CF community to socialize and possibly be intimate with. But it is
not fair to the CF persons.

There are WORLDS of difference between dating a man, dating a
divorced man, and dating a divorced FATHER OF THREE. You will NEVER
have his total focus, his full attention, or, to get down to
mercenary terms, his full financial support, if you decide to merge
your life with his. (Unless, of course, the divorced parent has
renounced all parental rights, responsibilities, and financial
obligations...but how many parents do you know who do that?)

FUCK THAT SHIT!

I (and the cool CF women of Austin No Kidding!) deserve a WHOLE man,
and not just the pathetic remnants some babymomma left once she had
got her use out of him.


===========