Graaaaargh!

[evile]

longshot14 posted some links that he finds interesting and useful. I checked this one out, since clutter is a constant foe at my house. The top article pushed my buttons like ... a crazy amount. Wow, I can't believe it still pisses me off so much!

I hate to be one of those people who starts a sentence with "My therapist said"...but I gotta take exception to the last part of #3: "Discuss the real problem. If you’re upset that your wife repeatedly leaves her dirty dishes strewn about the living room your frustration has very little to do with dirty dishes. You’re upset because you believe she doesn’t care about the cleanliness level in the living space. So, talk about the real problem and use the dirty dishes as an example of how that lack of caring is expressed."

See, to *me* dirty socks on the coffee table meant "I don't care about this house and I don't care about you. I have no respect for the home we bought together or the household we've made together."

(which, as it turns out, was true. But his slobbyness was not relevant to that fact.)

HOWEVER, according to my REBT therapist, his messyness didn't MEAN anything to my partner, one way or the other. There was no 'underlying issue' in his mind. The coffee table was just a handy place to stash socks when he came home from work. The problem was not his action or his behavior, it was my assumptions and my emotional response to his actions/behavior.

So, step one is not to get to the underlying issue. It's to own your feelings about the behavior, not blame him for the feelings. THEN address the behavior, not your emotional response to the behavior.

And never EVER EVER EVER EVER assume that you know what someone is thinking or feeling because of how they're behaving. You may be right, you may be wrong.

The point is not to assume, but to ASK.

(I still don't have ANY clue how to live happily with someone if your ideas of cleanliness are completely different. My solution was to keep the house and dump the mess-maker. And now that it's MY house, I'm afraid I've become somewhat autocratic in how I keep it. My house, my rules, you don't like it, bye-bye.

Possibly not the best solution, but one I am currently pretty happy with.)

Comments

[goudananda.livejournal.com]

The underlying issue that I see and have seen throughout my short time on this planet is 1) people not thinking that small actions have anything to do with a larger picture, a holistic view point if you will and 2) having more STUFF means that I'm safe and secure.

I can be VERY picky about clutter and stuff. The first rule is it's got to be functional. Books can be read, but they're easier to read if on a shelf and somewhat organized. Same thing with music or in my case kitchen utensils. If you have a bookcase full of precious moments...you should be drug out of your house with a chain thru the streets while people throw old fruit at you.

Why didn't he put his socks IN his shoes? Seems to me that it's far nastier to put them on the coffee table.

Often people don't think that that means anything but that's usually cause they just rarely THINK AT ALL. I don't date those people. However I do date someone that has a sense of cleanliness far apart from mine. I notice if the house is dirty as I define it, which is a fairly arbitrary distinction and depends highly on my emotional state. The more diffiicult people and life are on the outside, the more concerned I am about maintaining a clean and clutter free environment.

It's taken lots of effort and discussion to get to the point of asking Andrea if she'd just sweep the living room and kitchen for me. We've discussed it and I work on asking for specific tasks that help me feel better in my environment. If I was with a partner who didn't care about those things, I'd quickly lose my mind.

Most people...deserve a Scarface visit.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

Most people don't think, you're right.

When you live with another person, though, you always have to keep that in mind. You're creating a home environment together. Sometimes it's work. I think as long as it doesnt' feel to one person like they're doing *all* of the work, it's OK.

*LOL* about the Precious Moments, by the way. Those things are hideous. Same for Hummel figurines. ick & ew. I like your utilitarian views.

[made-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

Hm. The Precious Moments collection would correlate with the dysfunctionality of one family I knew when I was growing up....

Precious Moments figurines + tendency toward shrewishness = -- I don't want to think about what that equals at this point.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

In my experience, the people who collect dolls or figurines of children are not really in touch with the reality of what children really are and do. They tend to get sort of...miffed? distraught? unpleased? when real life kids are dirty and loud, unlike their big-eyed, pink-cheeked, endlessly adorable dollies.

Some of these people have kids, some don't. Doesn't seem to matter,all of these collector types seem to grow up into fussily tidy juiceless old biddies with bunches of frilly junk in their houses, everything flawlessly in place at all times. I never want my house THAT clean (or that cluttered!)