Graaaaargh!

[evile]

longshot14 posted some links that he finds interesting and useful. I checked this one out, since clutter is a constant foe at my house. The top article pushed my buttons like ... a crazy amount. Wow, I can't believe it still pisses me off so much!

I hate to be one of those people who starts a sentence with "My therapist said"...but I gotta take exception to the last part of #3: "Discuss the real problem. If you’re upset that your wife repeatedly leaves her dirty dishes strewn about the living room your frustration has very little to do with dirty dishes. You’re upset because you believe she doesn’t care about the cleanliness level in the living space. So, talk about the real problem and use the dirty dishes as an example of how that lack of caring is expressed."

See, to *me* dirty socks on the coffee table meant "I don't care about this house and I don't care about you. I have no respect for the home we bought together or the household we've made together."

(which, as it turns out, was true. But his slobbyness was not relevant to that fact.)

HOWEVER, according to my REBT therapist, his messyness didn't MEAN anything to my partner, one way or the other. There was no 'underlying issue' in his mind. The coffee table was just a handy place to stash socks when he came home from work. The problem was not his action or his behavior, it was my assumptions and my emotional response to his actions/behavior.

So, step one is not to get to the underlying issue. It's to own your feelings about the behavior, not blame him for the feelings. THEN address the behavior, not your emotional response to the behavior.

And never EVER EVER EVER EVER assume that you know what someone is thinking or feeling because of how they're behaving. You may be right, you may be wrong.

The point is not to assume, but to ASK.

(I still don't have ANY clue how to live happily with someone if your ideas of cleanliness are completely different. My solution was to keep the house and dump the mess-maker. And now that it's MY house, I'm afraid I've become somewhat autocratic in how I keep it. My house, my rules, you don't like it, bye-bye.

Possibly not the best solution, but one I am currently pretty happy with.)

Comments

[mouser.livejournal.com]

"For people who are chronic clutterers and hoarders of junk, I have NO doubt there is an underlying issue there, for them, psychologically."

There is an underlying issue for everything we DO and DON'T.


I was involved with a woman for a few years who ALWAYS assume the worst case. It took six months for me to realize that was the case, and I don't know NOW long to get her to just ASK what I meant.

If I leave my socks somewhere you don't like, maybe it's because I don't konw it bothers you. (Not the table! Blech!) If you ask, I just MIGHT change that behavior to something you prefer.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

If you ask, I just MIGHT change that behavior to something you prefer.

And you might not. Or you might do it my way for a while and then forget and do things the way you were in the habit of doing them before I showed up and started whining about respect and boundaries and bla de bla.

Nobody wants to be a nag. Nobody wants to BE nagged. I think the best way to handle it is to choose a partner who already lives in a way that you find acceptable. If you're not comfortable with the level of cleanliness in his swingin bachelor garage apartment, there's not much of of a chance he's going to become instantly tidy when y'all move in together.

People don't change all that much. Certainly they don't change from external badgering. If he wanted to quit leaving socks where they didn't belong, it would be because that practice was no longer comfortable or happy-making for HIM, not because I'd been fussing at him about it every single day for 12 years. (In fact, with my ex in particular, the more you fuss at him, the more likely he is to keep doing what you hate, just for spite and stubbornness. You can almost see his unruly inner child sticking out its bottom lip and saying 'you're not the boss of ME!')

[mouser.livejournal.com]

And you might not.

Or you MIGHT.

"The point is not to assume, but to ASK."

I've a friend that would leave clean dishes in the dishwasher, and stack the dirty ones in the sink. When I explained that if he put the clean ones away and stacked the dirty ones in the dishwasher that he wouldn't have the bug problem he had, he changed his approach.

Asking isn't nagging, and it may not have occurred to them the benefits of your way, or that it was bothering you.

[bramblekite.livejournal.com]

You're right, asking is not nagging.

I don't care to ask more than a few times.

After that, it is not worth it to me to be a shrew about it.