this is another group, polyfidelity2. Same ol' stuff. boring!
------------------
From: SIL
Subject: Re: [Polyfidelity] Hi....
I acknowledge that I do not know the facts of SSL's relationship
other than what she represents through her posts, nor am I personally
acquainted with SSL or her boyfriend. With all due respect, however,
I must gently but firmly affirm what Chris et al have said quite well.
Born and bred in Texas, I was raised in the old fashioned Southern
Baptist/Southern Methodist tradition. I was a truly devout Christian,
as opposed to the vast majority who are hypocritical wannabes in my
opinion, for the first 20 years of my life. From the tender age of 8,
I had studied world mythologies, and at University, out of curiosity,
I visited the Pagan Students Association. After close examination and
scrutiny of my beliefs, I realized that Christianity was not my path,
and I became an eclectic solitary pagan. Here I met and eventually
married another pagan.
Now, something that is quite commonly said, among many Wiccans and
other neopagans, is "all acts of love and pleasure are sacred...".
But Judaism Christianity and Islam haven't got the market cornered on
hypocrisy - for you see, many pagans talk that talk, but cannot walk
that walk when the shoe is on the other foot.
Both myself and my husband, who came to paganism as a recovering
Catholic, were brought up with the traditional views of monogamy and
cheating. And of course, cheating is a term subject to a plethora of
varied definitions. In the year before we were married, he cheated on
me several times. No, he never consummated the act, never "went all
the way," but he went right up to the edge of that cliff and danced
all over it, from kissing through petting all the way up to just, and
I mean just, short of all the way. (How's that for convoluted :P). He
is a very secretive person, and at this time he was not a truthful
person, so he went out of his way to hide these incidents from me and
to lie his derriere out of the sling when I discovered them (yes -
lies will always be discovered, it is just a matter of
time...discovery of lies is *when* not *if*).
Not one month before the day of our wedding, I caught him in
flagrante delicto, and he would not admit to the truth to which I had
been an eye witness until I had chased him around with my spirit
blade (sacred dagger) for several hours like a crazed, insane shrew.
Getting the truth from him about anything, not just his sexual
indiscretions, is like pulling a freight train with my pinky finger,
or pulling teeth with pliars and no novocaine. Dishonesty, in all
forms, be it commission, omission or hypocrisy, is one of my biggest
pet peeves, and so his coverups and lies just made things much, much
worse. The first few years of our marriage, his lies and infidelities
were among my favorite weapons to hurl at him during the many pitched
battles.
Then I went through a spiritual rebirth (a long story in and of tself
that I won't bore anyone with). The path that chose me has an
entirely different paradigm concerning love, sex and marriage, which
follows:
"Concerning Love
Love is the gift of the Spirit's blessings. It is the emanation of
Spirit within. Love is the Great Attainment. Receive love when it is
offered, and offer love regardless. Yet do not allow the duality of
love to cause you despair. For love can lift up your heart and it can
likewise drag it down. Accept love in the manner in which it comes to
you. Do not possess it, or attempt to control it or shape it. For
love is free, and shall come or go in its manner.
Concerning Sexuality
The sexual power of a man or woman is the strongest power that may be
raised from the body. The Christians teach that sexuality must be
repressed, and thereby rob the people of their personal power. Do not
be confused by the duality of sex, for it can be physical alone or it
can be spiritual alone. It can also be both together. Share your
sexuality with whomever you may, in whatever manner you may. For all
acts of love and pleasure are rituals to the Goddess and to the God.
It has been written that you shall be free, and so shall you be free
in body, mind, and spirit. Be not like the Christians who teach shame
and modesty, and false morality. Blessed are the free. You have heard
it said that homosexuality is unnatural, yet I say to you that
heterosexuality is likewise unbalanced. Everything is masculine and
feminine in essence, and all bear the divine spark of the God and
Goddess within them. Realize this, and do not exalt the one above the
other. A Strega must live with inner and outer harmony. You have
heard the Christians condemn adultery, and say that the spouse is the
property of the other. Yet no one may rightly dictate the will of
another. Do not confuse love with sex nor sex with love. Remember
that pleasure belongs to everyone, and rightly so. Therefore harm no
one through your own will, nor place your will above another's.
Concerning Marriage
When a man and a woman join their lives together through ritual, and
the love which they share, then are they linked to each other in
another life to come. Yet being together, know that each of you must
be alone. Understand that even though you are bound together, let
this not be as captives. There shall always be others with who each
of you may desire to share a closeness, either physical or spiritual.
This is as it should be. Let your love desire fullness of life for
each other and also pleasure for each other. Honor each other with
openness and honesty. Because you have joined your lives together,
you are sanctuary and comfort for each other. Together shall you
stand in all things, for you are true friends. You are together
because of your love, and you remain for this reason. Yet if this
reason for coming together is forgotten, or fades, then it is well to
part if needs be such. You do not honor the joining by remaining
without love. Neither do you honor each other."
Ok, so ...that was hard...VERY hard. I have to believe what??!!! Let
him do what???!! I agonized painfully for a long time, and then two
words screamed out for my attention. OPEN and HONEST. When I
examined my feelings over his past betrayals painstakingly with a
finetoothed comb, I realized, the sexual acts themselves aren't what
hurt me, what hurt was that I was lied to about them. Everything
became very clear suddenly, like stormladen clouds lifting away from
me.
Do I really care, does it really hurt, that he might want to have sex
with someone else? No. Not as long as he's OPEN and HONEST about it.
I have always known that sex and love are not necessarily or even
always desirably synonymous. So I made the following pact with him:
You may sleep with anyone you want under the following three
conditions:
1) You OPENLY and HONESTLY tell me BEFORE it happens. Do not make me
chase you with a dagger to get the truth about it after the fact.
2) Protect against BOTH disease and unwanted pregnancies. Don't come
home with a child or something that will make me sick or kill me. I
want to see evidence of a negative STD test from your intended
partner, and want you to use whatever precautions necessary to
protect against STDS and pregnancy.
3) Do not bring another partner into our marital bed nor into our
marital home without my prior consent.
He agreed with alacrity, undoubtedly because he saw it as inuring to
his own benefit. After all, he was the one with the history of
demonstrated proclivity for sexual activity outside of our
relationship. Imagine his surprise, and my own, when I was the first
one to acquire an Other Significant Other years later. I have now
been married to my husband for over 10 years, and my soulmate has
also been part of my life for 5 years. With the two horses and the
macaw, we live together as a family. Recently the soulmate got an
apartment to have some space of his own from time to time, and that
certainly helps.
Despite the long hours of negotiation, despite the agreement, despite
my open, honest honoring of that agreement both in spirit and letter,
my insanely possessive, jealous, unfaithful and secretive husband did
not react well for the first two years of my new relationship, going
so far one night as to put his hands around my throat. We braved many
years of fiery storm to get to the state of grace, the calm and
peaceful shore where we exist now as a family - me, two horses, one
macaw, and two adult male children <g>.
Without openness and honesty, how can you know for certain that all
the other worthwhile aspects of the relationship you want to preserve
are really and truly genuine, and not just cherished illusions? Are
you going to have to chase him with a knife to get him to tell you
the truth about his other woman? Do you want to have to chase him
with a knife anytime you want the truth out of him for the rest of
your life? What about the hypocrisy of his (dishonestly) having his
needs met by another while he forbids you to do the same?
In the Great Bard's Hamlet, Polonius the fool tells his son, "To
thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou can not then be false to any man." Only a madman or a fool
tells the bald truth.
Benedizione chiari e scuri, (blessings light and dark)
S----, Queen of Swords
*****
From: S..
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: Needing Advice...
::hugs Shay comfortingly:: been there, done that (or something very
similar), more than once.
In addition to my marriage of more than 10 years, I have had two
other long distance relationships that both began online.
The first of the two relationships, with my current OSO, remains
successful. All three of us have battle scars from the fiery storm
we had to brave to reach the calm and peaceful shore and state of
grace in which we coexist now. And, paradoxically and ironically
enough, my relationship with my husband has improved because of the
presence of my OSO, despite the first two years it took my husband to
get the insane possessiveness, jealousy and physical violence out of
his system. I won't go into how we came to have a polyfi marriage in
the first place, or what our triformis polyfi agreement states,
because you may read my earlier post for that information if you like.
The second long distance online relationship turned out to be a
dismal failure when we met in real life. Knowing before he entered a
relationship with me that I had an established family with a husband,
an OSO, two horses and a macaw, he felt like they were the
interlopers. He honestly thought he could "cut me from the herd" - a
popular term coined by polys referring to the pattern that some monos
have of thinking that love will conquer all, and that they can
convert us back to being mono. He seriously expected to me to leave
my entire family behind and move to New Zealand to marry him. The
breakup was very nasty, and he managed to turn at least one "good
friend" of many years against me. He caused a great deal of mental
distress, not only to me but also to my husband and my OSO. He
behaved in all aspects like an overgrown teenage brat - whiny,
sullen, pissy, possessive, jealous, insecure, an emotional black hole
draining everyone around him dry.
So, I've seen both sides of the long distance online coin - hardwon
success, and bitter failure. From the perspective of these
experiences, I have some strong opinions about your situation.
First and foremost, OPENNESS and HONESTY. Please refer to my prior
post regarding what I believe about "Concerning Love, Sex and
Marriage." Be honest with yourself first, painfully honest. Then be
painfully honest with both One and Two.
I have a serious problem with the way One is behaving, and here's why.
I believe that when you seek to be happy, "... know that your seeking
and desire will reward you not, until you realize the secret. Because
if that which you seek is not found within your inner self; you will
never find it from without...". In my opinion, a healthy
relationship must be constructed openly and honestly by two healthy
individuals. A healthy individual is defined as someone who seeks
happiness from within, rather than from without. Healthy individuals
do not make happiness a responsibility of their partners.
Healthy individuals are happy and want those they love to be happy
also. They don't want to own those they love, don't want to dictate
to those they love, don't want to enforce their wills over the wills
of those they love. So many relationships function like contracts.
I want A to make me happy, and he wants B to make him happy. So, I
will enter a contract with him wherein if he gives me A then I give
him B. Then starts the scorekeeping. How many times does he give me
A versus how many times I have given him B? My observation about
scorekeeping is this. Scorekeeping is the device used in games such
as the SuperBowl to decide who wins and who loses. Seems to me like
turning a relationship into a contest with a winner and a loser would
inherently doom that relationship to inevitable failure.
Begin by telling yourself the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth. Then tell your SO the truth, no lies of omission,
commission, or hypocrisy. If your SO wishes to continue a
relationship that would involve any of the following, it is my
opinion that you should reconsider:
1. He seeks to impose his Will above yours, with such emotional
blackmail as "If you loved me you would do..."/"If you loved me you
would not do". Regarding, for example, your need for a relationship
with Two, or anyone else, or anything else for that matter.
2. He seeks a relationship contract that involves keeping score,
which creates a winner, and a loser, and guess who gets to be the
loser?
Open and honest communication is the only firm foundation upon which
to build any loving relationship, with anyone, be it family, friend
or lover.
Also, your SO does not seem to be very bright regarding human nature
in terms of the sweetness of forbidden fruit, nor does he seem to be
very observant of what undesirable patterns he creates with the terms
he has been dictating to you.
After you are completely honest with yourself and your SO, then you
need to meet Two in person. You cannot judge the merit of a
relationship with Two until you spend quality time together.
Take comfort and know that there is a state of grace existing on a
calm and peaceful shore for those who dare to brave the fiery storm.
I wish you the best, and support you wholeheartedly in your open and
honest quest for happiness.
From: S...
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 1:31 pm
Subject: For RT
A heartfelt amen to sister Mina Meow, testify!
My heart aches for you, RT :(.
I too have been a satellite of the BDSM community for a long while.
I am something of a switch - submissive in the bedroom and Dominant
outside of it. I find myself thrust into the position of unwilling
Mistress to two equally unwilling subs (my husband and my OSO) on
occasion, much to my chagrin, and theirs.
Do I hear a justifiably outraged and deeply wounded Mistress
screaming and crying to be unleashed and let out?
Pick up a fork. As long as you use it for eating, the fork
will last indefinitely. However, if you begin to use it to drive
nails or dig trenches, it will soon break. The key is to use it for
what it was designed to do. You are like the fork. When you do what
you are not designed to do, you eventually break.
Here are the early warning signs:
1. chronic fatigue - exhaustion, tiredness, a sense of being
physically run down
2. anger at those making demands
3. self-criticism for putting up with the demands
4. cynicism, negativity, and irritability
5. a sense of being besieged
6. exploding easily at seemingly inconsequential things
7. frequent headaches and gastrointestinal disturbances
8. weight loss or gain
9. sleeplessness and depression
10. shortness of breath
11. suspiciousness
12. feelings of helplessness
13. increased degree of risk taking
Sound familiar?
The hearth is the sacred heart of the home, in my faith. In my
faith, we are polyamorous; yet, I believe as wife and mother, you are
Goddess of your hearth and home, regardless of whomever else enjoys
the hospitality of your hearth and home for a time. Period. Non
negotiable.
You are not doing what you were designed to do as wife and mother
Goddess. He and his new plaything are trying to use you to do the
dirty work, driving nails and digging trenches. This is not what you
were designed to do, nor what you agreed to do.
A friend of mine is fond of telling me at certain times, "You are a
Witch. THINK like a Witch. *BE* a Witch." My poor RT, I tell you,
you are a wife and mother Goddess. Think like one. BE one.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here is what I believe,
about Love, and about Marriage:
"Concerning Love
[snip]
Concerning Marriage
[snip]
In the same way that you should not attempt to possess, control or
shape him, *NEITHER SHOULD HE ATTEMPT TO POSSESS, CONTROL NOR SHAPE
YOU* <emphatic>. You obviously desire fullness of life and pleasure
for him. You honor him with openness and honesty. You are sanctuary
and comfort for him. You are his true friend. You are together and
remain with him because of your love for him. Yet, it seems to me
like this is a One Way street; he does not desire fullness of life
and pleasure for you, he does not honor you with openness and
honesty, he is neither sanctuary nor comfort for you, with friends
like him, who needs enemies.
"Therefore harm no one through your own will, nor place your will
above another's." You do not harm him through your Will, and he
repays that by placing his Will above yours.
"This above all: to thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the
night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." How can you
be true to yourself, without placing your Will above his in the same
way he has wronged you by placing his Will above yours?
My peculiar little family consists of my husband, my OSO, and my
children: two horses and a macaw (none of the human variety, yet).
Both my husband and my OSO know they are welcome to love others under
three conditions. One of which is that they do not bring another
lover into my home, into my family, into my bed, without my prior
permission.
He does not have to live without her, AND you do not necessarily have
to live WITH her. As wife and mother Goddess, your hearth and home
are sacred to you. Be open and honest about what the rules,
regulations and boundaries of your hearth and home are going to be,
gently, but firmly. If she can't handle that heat, she needs to get
out of your kitchen and get one of her own. My OSO of his own free
will has his own apartment, as much for his own privacy and sanity as
for mine and my husband's. You can't control him, her or anyone else
other than yourself. Control yourself, do not relinquish control of
yourself to him and to her, do not relinquish control of YOUR hearth
and home to either one of them.
Please do not hesitate to let me know if there's anything I can do,
large or small, to help or comfort you, RT. If you ever need to
talk, email me, we'll trade phone numbers.
====
From: S
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: Finally getting around to responding to all your
insight....
Dear Shay,
"Concerning Love
Love is the gift of the Spirit's blessings. It is the emanation of
Spirit within. Love is the Great Attainment. Receive love when it is
offered, and offer love regardless. Yet do not allow the duality of
love to cause you despair. For love can lift up your heart and it can
likewise drag it down. Accept love in the manner in which it comes
to you. Do not possess it, or attempt to control it or shape it. For
love is free, and shall come or go in its manner."
When you accept the truth of the above, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, you will be at peace with yourself and your feelings
for Two. I don't know for what reason or reasons, for One's sake,
because of your past history of abuse, or whatever, that you are not
accepting your love for Two in the manner in which it comes to you.
You are enabling One to possess, control and shape you. In turn you
are trying to possess, control and shape your feelings for Two. You
do not allow love to be free. You are not true to yourself. Because
you are not true to yourself, you cannot be true to One, Two, or
anyone else. In my opinion, this is a great deal of why you are
miserable.
"People come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime.
When you figure out which one it is, you will know what to do for
each person.
When someone is in your life for a REASON. . . It is usually to meet
a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a
difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you
physically, emotionally, or spiritually. They may seem like a
godsend, and they are! They are there for the reason you need them to
be. Then, without any wrong doing on your part, or at an inconvenient
time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship
to an end. Sometimes they die. Sometimes they walk away. Sometimes
they act up and force you to take a stand. What we must realize is
that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done.
The prayer you sent up has been answered. And now it is time to move
on.
Then people come into your life for a SEASON. Because your turn has
come to share, grow, or learn. They bring you an experience of peace,
or make you laugh. They may teach you something you have never done.
They usually give you an unbelievable amount of joy. Believe it! It
is real! But, only for a season.
LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons; things you must
build upon in order to have a solid emotional foundation. Your job is
to accept the lesson, love the person, and put what you have learned
to use in all other relationships and areas of your life. It is said
that love is blind but friendship is clairvoyant."
Have you examined your relationship with One in terms of Reason,
Season or Lifetime? I hear so much ambivalence, between gratitude to
One, and despair brought on by One. But I posit to you, that you
cannot love One or give him what he wants, out of gratitude. Perhaps
you feel guilty because you think you should love him and give him
what he wants out of gratitude, and you really, truly don't. Given
all that you've said, I believe that One may have been in your life
for a Reason and/or a Season, and you should be grateful for the
good. But you should not suffer the bad for a Lifetime.
Number One is not worth your tears, and the one who is won't make you
cry. You need to meet Two, as soon as possible, regardless of what
One thinks about it. Do not possess, control or shape love yourself,
and do not allow One to possess, control or shape love for you and
Two.
I willingly offer you comfort and support, if you will accept them.
We can correspond through email, over the phone, over IRC, or
whatever. I'm also in Texas, by the way.
Benedizione chiari e scuri, (blessings dark and light)
S
Queen of Swords
*****
May the Roads rise to meet you
May the Winds blow always at your back
May the Sun shine warmly upon your face
May the Rains fall softly upon your fields
Until we meet again, may the Lady hold you always in the palm of Her
hand
From: S..
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Polyfidelity] New to the group
Ave Rose and Aries,
For what it's worth you might share the following with your OSOs when
jealousy rears its ugly head. These are portions of the Gospel of
Aradia, from my Book of Ways.
"Concerning Love
[snip]
Concerning Sexuality
[snip]
Concerning Marriage
[snip]
These Words are hard to swallow initially, even for pagans, when
those pagans were raised with the mainstream beliefs of Western JCI
(Judaism Christianity and Islam) regarding monogamy. It takes a long
time for the heart to adjust to what the head readily acknowledges as
truth. It is far harder to wrangle with Feelings than with Fact.
I have been married to my husband going on 11 years, and my OSO has
been part of our lives for going on 6 years now. For what it's
worth, there is a calm and peaceful shore, a state of grace that
exists on the other side of the fiery storm, for those who dare to
brave it. We all have the battle scars to prove it ;-).
It is agonizingly painful, but well worth it (like childbirth, so I'm
told -- lol).
I wish both you and yours joy, peace, and harmony.
Benedizione chiari e scuri,
S
(double Gemini, Queen of Swords)
*****
From: s" Date: Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:05 am
Subject: Re: What is the Book of Ways?
--- In polyfidelity2@y... </group/polyfidelity2/post?
protectID=197233235200021132227038001026249164123098100046209130>, "as
tibe32909" <hamali1@h... </group/polyfidelity2/post?
protectID=180166014237018132024218046036129208>> wrote:
> S, the passages you quote Concerning Marriage, etc. were
> interesting. Where does it come from and what can you tell me
about
> it?
> Astibe
Ave Astibe :-)
Thank you for asking :-).
Most religions have sacred writings of some sort, written by founders
or by disciples. The Book of Ways is the private journal passed down
through Italian Witch family lines. Gardner and Crowley renamed the
Book of Ways - "Book of Shadows," a Wiccan term with which you may be
more familiar.
The Gospel of Aradia, or Gospel of the Witches, is a collection of
writings sacred to certain of the Italian witchcraft traditions.
Aradia di Toscano was a powerful 14th century witch, wise woman and
spiritual teacher who travelled from village to village, healing,
counseling, comforting, giving peasants hope, reviving and teaching
the Old Religion. She is referred to as the Queen of Witches, the
Holy Strega, and La Bella Pellegrina (The Beautiful Pilgrim). She is
an Avatar to the Streghe.
I have tried to keep this answer as succinct, short and sweet as
possible. If you wish to delve further into the subject, allow me to
suggest the following resources:
www.stregheria.com
www.mythandculture.com
LaVecchia egroup
books:
Ways of the Strega, Italian Witchcraft, and Hereditary Witchcraft, by
Raven Grimassi.
Benedizione chiari e scuri, (blessings light and dark)
S
*****
May the Roads rise to meet you
May the Winds blow always at your back
May the Sun shine warmly upon your face
May the Rains fall softly upon your fields
Until we meet again, may the Lady hold you always in the palm of Her
hand
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