evile

Quora: Should I remain in a group chat with a narcissist?

Mon, 09 Jan 2023 18:20:18 GMT

I had a similar experience about a year ago, actually. A friend created a facebook group that was described as a ‘safe space’ for women to speak freely about past abuse or trauma, share resources, bla bla bla.

One of the people she added is a woman (let’s call her Katie) who was stalking, harassing, and running smear campaigns against a friend of mine (let’s call her Susan) who had started dating Katie’s ex. Katie hadn’t said or done anything to me, personally, but of course she started badmouthing Susan and calling Susan and her ex ‘abusers’ and whatnot in the group, sharing her episodes of harassment, stalking, and abusive behavior towards Susan and her boyfriend as things Susan and her boyfriend had done to her rather than as things she’d done to them (DARVO).

Since I was around at the time Susan was experiencing all this harassment, I knew Katie was lying, projecting, and smearing.

Rather than confront Katie about her toxic behavior towards Susan and calling her out on her smear campaign I just went ahead and left the group. I don’t have any control over who my friends are friends with, but there’s no reason for me to be around when my friend is spending time and energy on someone I know is toxic and dangerous. (that's called a Boundary!)

Now, if the group was a family group, a professional organization, a religious group, I might stay in the group chat but just not directly speak to or respond to the narcissist, and I’d be cautious about sharing any information with the group that the narc might be able to pick up and use against me.

In my experience with narcissists and groups, the narc can’t hold their ‘wonderful me!’ fake persona for very long, and eventually their true colors will show. If a group’s leadership is wise and experienced, they’ll boot the narc and keep the group intact. If the group’s leadership is naive or unprepared, the narc will tear the group apart, or turn it into nothing but a pack of flying monkeys.

Overall, I think it comes down to weighing pros and cons of staying vs. leaving and deciding what membership in the group means to you. If there are other ways to stay in touch with the people in that group and receive the information that is shared in the group that will not expose you to toxic behavior, that is the way I’d go.

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Posts tagged 'quora' were originally my answers to peoples' questions on quora.com.

They were monetized but I am giving them away for free here.

If you feel inclined to support my writing, here's my paypal

And if you prefer to pay it forward, I recommend Safe Place as an excellent place to support.

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Quora: Why are NPD people not held accountable for their childish yet ruthless behavior?

Fri, 06 Jan 2023 16:41:12 GMT

Why are NPD people not held accountable for their childish yet ruthless behavior? They are, in fact, in full control of what they choose to do.

Yes, they are in control of their behavior. They do choose times, places, and targets for their ‘rage outs’ and other abusive episodes; for example, my abusive in-law would abuse their spouse in front of me but not in front of our parents or grandparents. When I spoke to the parents and grandparents about the abusive behavior, in hindsight I see that it just made me look like a troublemaker and a gossip. Neat! I just figured that out…after 30 years! And you were here for it…but I digress.

Holding an NPD abuser accountable is like nailing jello to a tree…it just doesn’t work, they are slippery and slimy and they fall apart! They have so many manipulative tricks that are second nature to them.

The first trick they’ll try is DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

"I didn’t hit you, you started the fight when you hit me back! It’s all your fault, I wouldn’t have to hit you if you had just listened to me and done what I told you to do in the first place!”

They also have a habit of picking a time and place where their target is vulnerable and inserting their own reality into the person’s mind (brainwashing). They may have a dream where their partner is cheating on them, wake their partner up and scream and cry at them about their ‘cheating’ until they force the person to ‘confess’ that they did actually cheat…and then hold their ‘cheating’ against them for the rest of their lives, and use their ‘cheating’ as an excuse to perpetrate infidelities themselves, since ‘you did it first’.

“Cheating’ can also be defined by the person looking at attractive people on television or in movies, which is then an excuse for the NPD to go out and sleep with other people in real life. This seems so outlandish and crazy, but both the NPD abuser and their target will legitimately actually BELIEVE that the target cheated, in real life, due to a dream or just looking at an attractive actor on a screen. It is truly bizarre. The target never has an opportunity to deal in reality and confront the NPD with their infidelity because they’ve been manipulated into allowing it due to their own ‘indiscretions’ which ‘forced’ the NPD to cheat and ‘teach them a lesson’ or 'make us even' (or whatever.)

The rules are always changing, so that the abuser can always say their target broke a rule in order to justify whatever abuse they want to dish out. The truth is: narcs gonna narc. They are going to do whatever they want to do in the moment, and backfill with justifications and excuses after the fact.

The narcissist’s world is so inside out and upside down crazy-town that there is no link in their mind between cause and effect. And if you stick around long enough, you will also adopt this crazy-town way of thinking and begin to find meaning in the Narcissist’s word-salad, and agree with them that you deserve no blame for the negative things in their lives. Narcissists do not accept or even understand consequences for their own behavior. Everything bad that happens to them is someone else’s fault, never a logical progression from their own choices and behavior.

Strangely, everything good that ever happens to them is because of their super genius professional expertise, rather than because they were lucky, or had a team of people helping them (or doing the work for them, most likely). Their minds just don't work the way normal people’s minds work.They are incapable of accepting responsiblity for any negativity in their lives. They are incapable of accepting responsibility for their own behavior. There is no ‘there’ there. All of those features of a normal person’s mind are just *missing*. You can try all day long until you turn blue and die, but you can never hold a narcissist responsible for their behavior. They just will not accept it. They will not change. They will not ever get well. Good luck with that jell-o.

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Editing to add: Posts tagged 'quora' were originally my answers to peoples' questions on quora.com. They were monetized but I am giving them away for free here.

If you feel inclined to support my writing, here's my paypal

And if you prefer to pay it forward, I recommend Safe Place as an excellent place to support.

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Quora: How would the narcissist process it if multiple supplies told them to seek help from a mental

Fri, 06 Jan 2023 00:00:30 GMT

How would the narcissist process it if multiple supplies told them to seek help from a mental health professional?

The narcissist is the author of his/her own reality. S/he is the ‘expert’ on everything that s/he says s/he is an expert on.

In my experience, that means that narcissists don’t believe that doctors know anything. They would rather read an article on Google and self-diagnose than deal with a doctor who they might have to admit is smarter and more knowledgeable than they are about their medical condition.

So, if narcissist's friend, family member, or spouse said “I think you should see a psychologist about your situation,” that would cause an injury[1] to the narcissist’s sense of being perfect, being an expert, and being in control.

They would very likely spin into a DARVO

[2]

: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender. “I don’t need a shrink, I don’t need psych meds, YOU are the sick one! YOU are the crazy one!”…and, for a cluster B, it makes more sense to have literally everyone around them telling them the same thing and ALL of them being wrong, rather than the Narcissist him/herself being wrong. Being wrong just isn’t possible, in a narc’s mind.

What’s funny/sick/sad is that if, after asking the Narcissist to see a mental health professional and having the Narc refuse repeatedly, if the Narcisssist’s supply (victim) goes to counseling and begins to heal and see the relationship for what it really is, then the Narc will tell everyone how the Supply is “lying” to the counselor, how they are fooling the counselor into siding with them against the Narcissist, etc. More fuel for the “Doctors are idiots who don’t know anything!” argument that the Narc likes to make constantly.

Bottom line: Narcissists don’t go to counselors, because the main part of their malfunction is believing that there is nothing wrong with them. There’s no way to get past that part and delve into helping them. If they won’t believe they need help, won’t seek help, and , if somehow forced into seeing a mental health professional, they would rather believe the professional is evil, wrong, and/or stupid, rather than accept anything that they say as factual or helpful.

Footnotes

[1]

Narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury - Wikipedia

[2]

DARVO: Understanding a gaslighting strategy of reversing blame - Banyan Therapy Group

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Quora: How do you think a narcissist would react to confronting her if she is not self-aware? Can we

Thu, 05 Jan 2023 21:40:30 GMT

How do you think a narcissist would react to confronting her if she is not self-aware? Can we tell if they are or are not aware of their disorder?

There is no point in confronting a narcissist with your conclusions about their mental disorder; the base of their entire disorder is DENIAL. They cannot see or accept this truth about themselves, because they are absolutely terrified of the dark and empty place inside and do everything they can to protect themselves from seeing it.

Secondly, unless you are a mental health professional that the narc has employed for aid, you are not qualified to make a diagnosis. Let me repeat again: unless the narcissist has specifically asked you, and you are a qualified mental health professional, it is absolutely not your job to share your diagnosis with the narcissist. It would be doing harm, both to the narc and to yourself, to share your conclusions with them.

Finally, one of the most destructive tools in the Narcissist toolbox is a whirlwind of evil known as DARVO:

Deny

Attack

Reverse Victim & Offender

What this means, in a nutshell, is that the Narc will fall back to a very primitive defense mechanism of “NO I’M NOT A NARCISSIST, YOU ARE, and I’M NOT HURTING YOU, YOU ARE HURTING ME!” —if you break it down this way, you see that it is a very immature and childish defense mechanism, but because the narc is an adult with an adult’s intelligence and strength, the DARVO can be a very powerful and very destructive tool; the Narc can and will DARVO to the point of physical or legal attack, bringing legal charges, and doing a very good job of convincing law enforcement and judges that you are the threat. They will take your information on narcissistic abuse and use the terminology to turn everything around to make you look like the narcissistic abuser and themselves look like your victim. They are skilled manipulators and excellent at spinning up a ‘poor me’ story to rally flying monkeys to their side; this is a ‘game’ you cannot and will not win and depending on the malevolence of your narcissist, you stand to lose friends, close and trusting family bonds, your job, your freedom, or perhaps even your life (put a narcissist hand in hand with a dangerously unstable flying monkey, and that monkey can be manipulated into homicide, this is no joke.)

Once you are to a point in a relationship with someone where you believe or realize that they are a narcissist, the most crucial thing for you to do is to make a plan to get yourself safely away from this person. There is no way to win, there is no way to help them, there is no way to make them see what they’re doing is wrong or force them to stop what they are doing. The only person you can control is yourself, so it‘s best to use your self control to free yourself from a relationship with a toxic and destructive person.

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