These mind control techniques are also eerily resonant with the rules & behavior of certain poly families I've seen and heard of.
I understand with my smart brain that it's the individual's choice to live that way. I also hurt with my stupid heart when I think about people I care about who have made such choices.
I can't fix or save anyone or anything, but maybe I can give enough information that someone might read and decide to fix and save him- or her- self.
I'm here for anyone who wants to talk about this. No one deserves to be treated like this. Love Doesn't Hurt.
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html:( Read more... )
-Henry Rollins, "Hating Someone's Guts"
I denied his friend request, charming as his profile was...but in clicking through to the yahoo page where you can see pending friends requests and messages and such, I found a message that X. sent me in January. At the time I judged it as more self-serving bullcrap and did not reply, but today I re-read it, thought about her for the first time in a long while, realized I'm not angry anymore. I don't hate her anymore.
I'm still sad and hurt when I think about losing my relationship with her kids and her stepdad...but not angry or full of hate anymore.
I can live with sad and hurt, I think.
And...I am somewhat grateful to her, because if it was not for her and one other person, I might have fallen for my brother A's Pig's narcissistic charm-act, gotten far more involved with trying to be a friend to her and be an 'auntE' to her kids, and might have been facing made-up abuse/molestation charges in jail as we speak, as a result.
So thank goodness for being able to learn lessons in self-preservation from people who are not quite as bad as The Pig, but share many traits with her, nonetheless.
And...thank goodness for my friends with kids who are good, sane, decent people, who let me play with their kiddos and love them and don't punish me and use me because I love their kids. Every time I chat with 'Phine about art or science, or see Ian's laughing little face, play trains with Kai, or hug Ms. Moo, or hold Coley or make Genna laugh or read Quinn a story, I feel more and more healed. I feel able to trust and love and give without feeling used or being punished for it later. That's a good feeling.
"I'm sorry" never fixes anything. A lot of people seem to think that those two words can get them out of facing the consequences for any egregious behavior, and that's just not the way it is.( Read more... )
Take all this with as much salt as necessary. I have lots of issues with apologies and forgiveness, in general, and I've rarely, if ever, been able to get it right.
Oh, and to answer the question more concretely and less philosophically: yes. There are 2 people in this world whose actions have been so unremittingly selfish, abusive, insane, and evil that I will NEVER forgive them. Not for what was done to me, personally, but for what I had to see my loved ones go through as a result of trying to cope with the fallout from those actions. Damage that has been passed down to a new generation of wounded innocents. Apologies will never even come close to 'fixing' it.
I think all abuse starts when the abuser fails to see his or her partner, children, parents, etc. as human beings and instead perceives them as objects. For example, the most abusive people I, personally, have encountered speak interchangably of their vehicle and their spouse as something "I have." [have as in 'own']
Progressing from that sort of thinking, I'm sure it's as infuriating for the abused spouse to say 'no' (or otherwise speak or act in opposition to the will of their abuser) as it would be for their car to not start when the key is turned in the ignition, or turn left when the driver is turning the steering wheel to the right. From that viewpoint, one can almost empathize with the resulting fear, rage, and abuse that ensues on the part of the abuser. Almost. Because, really, as sane and decent humans, we understand that people and even pets are NOT objects to be owned, but living beings with their own needs and desires, just as we are.
Anyway, enough editorializing. I wanted to share exerpts from a website I found http://www.churchcorporate.com/
This page speaks of viewing religous leaders in terms of pathology, and being careful which spiritual shepherd to trust with your sheep, so to speak. But I think there is a whole lot in common between religious cult leaders and abusive people in one-on-one relationships.
( Read more... )
Valuing friendships is a fine and worthy thing. When taken to an unhealthy extreme, however, GSF3 can manifest itself.( Read more... )
My thoughts: I think out of all the GSFs, this is one which I personally am most vulnerable to.( Read more... )
I would say if there is one particular person, relationship, friendship, or group membership that seems to be harming many other persons, relationships, friendhsips, or group memberships, you may be falling very hard into GSF#3 and that relationship bears closer examination. It's important to be a good friend, but not at the cost of your own health, finances, wellbeing, and certainly not at the cost of your relationships with other friends, family, work, or social groups.
I especially like the list provided by one of the posters:
25 Ways to Tell if Your Relationship is Toxic
1) Your partner puts you down verbally, in private or in front of others.
2) Your partner tells you he/she loves you but behavior shows otherwise.
3) Your partner doesn't want you to see or talk to friends or family.
4) Your partner is jealous of the time you spend with your kids. [pets, hobbies, etc.]
5) Your partner shows up often at your work unexpectedly or opens your mail.
6) Your partner calls you often to see what you are doing.
7) You cry often or feel depressed over your relationship.
8) Your partner says you would have the perfect relationship if only you would change.
9) Your partner wants you to be dependent on him/her.
10) Your partner does things for you and then uses them to make you feel obligated.
11) Your thoughts, opinions, accomplishments, or words are devalued.
12) You don't know who you are anymore without him/her, or how you would survive.
13) Your friends/family don't like your partner or don't think he/she is good for you.
14) You have changed things about yourself to suit your partner, even when it is not your taste.
15) You always go where your partner wants to, like movies, restaurants, etc.
16) Your partner has made you feel afraid or unsafe, and you have been afraid to speak the truth at times for fear of upsetting him/her (walking on eggshells).
17) You don't feel you have control of your life anymore.
18) Your self-esteem is lower since you've been with your partner.
19) You think it's up to you to make the relationship work.
20) You keep secrets about your relationship from others who love you because they wouldn't understand.
21) Your partner makes you feel unattractive or stupid.
22) Your partner accuses you of cheating and is overly jealous.
23) Your partner can be really sweet to you one minute, and really mean the next.
24) Your partner seems really sweet/loving to you when he/she thinks you are about to leave the relationship, or after he/she has been mean to you.
25) You can't remember the last time you felt happy for more than a few days straight.
If you need help with your relationship, talk to a friend or family member, a clergyman, a counselor, or call your local mental health center. If you are in danger, help is available at The National Domestic Violence Hotline, (800) 799-SAFE, where someone can put you in touch with ... shelters and other resources. Remember, no one can take care of you as well as YOU can. Get the help you need.
Posted by: Goddess of Java in relationships, boundaries
Relationships can be good and fulfilling things — no doubt about it. They can bring joy, help and mutual comfort to all involved.
However, there is a problem. People are people.
Sometimes they’re just fine people.
Sometimes they’re rescuers.
Sometimes they’re users.( Read more... )
( Read more... )
According to Webster's Dictionary, drama is "a state, situation or series of events involving intense conflict or force." Passion, on the other hand, is defined as "a devotion to some activity, object or concept." ( Read more... )
Help! I'm In Love With A Narcissist by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol.
Some good sections:
HOW NARCISSISTS MAKE YOU FEEL( Read more... )
The Characteristics of a Narcissist( Read more... )
Using Image to Puff Up the False Self( Read more... )
Here are some possible reasons why people might not want to spend time with you:
You tell us things about yourself that we don't want to know. Certain topics, ie: bodily functions, digestion, pregnancy, sexuality, are none of anyone's business (except perhaps your physician and/or your sex partner[s]), especially if you are just meeting someone for the first time, so please don't mention them.
Saying "I am allergic to peanuts" is acceptable. Saying "Peanuts make me break out in weeping pustules all over my body while having explosive diarrhea" is NOT.
Saying "I have 3 kids" is charming.
Whereas stating "I endured three pregnancies during which I bled constantly for the entire nine months," is not.
Exclaiming "I think Heath Ledger is adorable!" is perfectly agreeable. Saying "I want to strap on my Blowfish Special and screw Heath Ledger into the afterlife" is NOT.
Please err on the side of not enough information rather than TOO MUCH. As we get to know you better, then we may become interested in your health, fetishes, orifices, and what-have-you, but not right off the bat, not in mixed company, not at the dinner table, not in front of our parents, etc. When in doubt, remain silent. Nodding and smiling can't possibly get you in more trouble than telling a beloved family friend about your last adventure with a VD scare.
You spend more time talking than you do listening. Carry an egg timer if you have to, but give others equal time. If you spend more than an hour talking with someone and don't know at least 3 facts about them including their first name, chances are you've monopolized the conversation and the other person is perceiving you as rude. Shut up and listen. Ask questions, even if you could give less than a shit about the answers. It's only polite--after all we've been listening to you for however long you've been blathering on pointlessly.
You spend most of your time angry, sad, depressed, or whining. Yes, everyone has problems, but for heaven's sake, not all the time. If you spend all your time around us being angry, mean, sad, or bad-tempered, chances are we won't want to spend much time with you. If you can't think of anything pleasant to say, try asking someone else to bring up a pleasant topic of conversation and let their happiness lift you out of your own selfish rageful misery.
You are hygenically challenged. Bathe with soap and water daily. Brush your teeth with toothpaste at least twice a day. Use deodorant daily. Wear clean clothes every time you dress. Check your shoes for foot funk before you put them on. No matter how attractive your appearance may be, no matter how educated your conversation, if your odor offends, you will not be percieved as good company.
If none of the above seem to be applicable, perhaps you are just trying too hard with the wrong people. Keep looking for a group or individual with whom you may have a special connection....sorry, that's just the way the world works sometimes.
I really really wish I could just walk up to people and say all of that to them, right to their ugly, smelly, drama-whoring faces. But no....I have to be nice now.